America's Cup

[Road kill]

Americas Cup technology is ..... shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit hot! There will be some carnage before it's over, IMHO! Great stuff!

Not gonn'a happen mate.

The Aussies aren't in it.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

I'm loving the spectical of these boats but hugley disappointed by the fact they are so expensive there was no challenge in the lead up to the finals.

Scale the whole thing back, make it more affordable so we can see some racing leading into the finals.

I'd be happy to see mono hulls, technology has moved on in the last 10 yrs so they would be immpressive and more cost effective for more countrys to contend the regatta.

[ckai]

I don't think Sir Russell Coutts is a dick. He was the toast of NZ a decade ago. Good for him being the best he can be. We should celebrate that.

Anyway as a rule I've been pretty cynical about the Americas Cup over the past 25 years. Yes its enjoyable to see New Zealanders competing at the top but its a very narrow and exclusive group of people which are largely unknown by the rest of the world.

Even in the United States, the Americas Cup gets brief coverage despite what TVNZ has breathlessly assured us over the last 25 years. I have a kiwi mate living in the USA who is into small yachting and follows the Cup but he acknowledges it's at the back of the sports pages over there. Not much TV coverage unless they are winning.

But this time...

I mean Coutts is a dick personality wise. Not for what he did. I think what he did was fine.

There's a few yanks complaining about the lack of coverage. I was with tvnz as well to start but at least they're showing the finals and not just online.
I'm quite surprised at how many yanks are anti-nz. Saying we're cocky etc. Kinda annoying really as it couldn't be further from the truth. Thank god is a minority. I've been told the majority of people watching are going for nz. Even the Americans.

...gotta say the first time I saw shots of the NZ yacht hydrofoiling on Auckland harbour my jaw dropped. Damn and Damn again. This is science fiction. A boat which flies!

So yeah I'm entranced and it doesn't matter who wins. The sheer pleasure of watching such extreme high tech being pushed beyond rational limits is plenty reward. Its like high risk skiiing or motorcycle racing - absolutely on the edge.

I used the motor racing analogy as soon as they announced the foils on the boats. I knew it was gonna be nuts.

The father in law was over there recently and picked up a race. He said when they get close you think, yeah they're going pretty fast. Then you see and hear the chase boats struggling to keep up. He said it was just crazy. And he's a motor racer.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[MisterD]

Nope, the foil's not articulated, it's a fixed part of the centreboard,

If you watch, there's definitely an ability to change the angle of the foil, not just raise and lower it, so I think they must be able to switch it from a neutral to a lifting angle of attack.

I'd be happy to see mono hulls, technology has moved on in the last 10 yrs so they would be immpressive and more cost effective for more countrys to contend the regatta.

Is it the multihull or that wing sail that adds the cost? Can't see them wanting to go back to flappy bits of material, but then batteries and hydraulics seem plain wrong on a sailing boat.

[Mental Trousers]

Aye. And with most monohulls the best angle to get to the mark is about 45 degrees, don't know what these things are sailing at but it's more, more distance traded off for much more speed.

They're not too different, it looks like the AC72's are at about 42-43 degrees.

Nope, the foil's not articulated, it's a fixed part of the centreboard, what you're seeing with the abrupt leap out of the water is pure acceleration caused by sheeting in the windsail. The load on the whole system must be fucking unbelievable.

Simulations while designing put the highest load on the curve in the daggerboard where it goes from almost vertical to horizontal and was about 15ton

Even in the United States, the Americas Cup gets brief coverage despite what TVNZ has breathlessly assured us over the last 25 years. I have a kiwi mate living in the USA who is into small yachting and follows the Cup but he acknowledges it's at the back of the sports pages over there. Not much TV coverage unless they are winning.

It's not NASCAR so nobody watches by the sound of things.

Americas Cup technology is ..... shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit hot! There will be some carnage before it's over, IMHO! Great stuff!

The technology really is amazing stuff. I'm loving it. The America's Cup has always been about cutting edge technology from the day the American's first took the cup off the British using the America, which was so advanced it beat 15 yachts from the Royal Yacht Squadron by 8 minutes.

I'm loving the spectical of these boats but hugley disappointed by the fact they are so expensive there was no challenge in the lead up to the finals.

Scale the whole thing back, make it more affordable so we can see some racing leading into the finals.

I'd be happy to see mono hulls, technology has moved on in the last 10 yrs so they would be immpressive and more cost effective for more countrys to contend the regatta.

There's already been talk about how to scale back the cost. Soft rigs provide about 96-98% of the drive that the wing foils do but cost a fraction of the price. There's other possibilities as well.

The father in law was over there recently and picked up a race. He said when they get close you think, yeah they're going pretty fast. Then you see and hear the chase boats struggling to keep up. He said it was just crazy. And he's a motor racer.

It's crazy shit. Those chase boats are 1200hp built to military specs and when those AC72's come around mark 4 and turn for the finish line they accelerate faster than the chase boats can. Insane.

Nope, the foil's not articulated, it's a fixed part of the centreboard,

If you watch, there's definitely an ability to change the angle of the foil, not just raise and lower it, so I think they must be able to switch it from a neutral to a lifting angle of attack.

The entire daggerboard (the entire curve centreboard/wing) is solid as they're not allowed to have any moving parts or change shape. What they can do, however, is change the angle the daggerboard is mounted. So they can move the entire daggerboard in a few degrees forward or backward to alter the angle of the foil. This gives the control to be stable up on the foils.

I'd be happy to see mono hulls, technology has moved on in the last 10 yrs so they would be immpressive and more cost effective for more countrys to contend the regatta.

Is it the multihull or that wing sail that adds the cost? Can't see them wanting to go back to flappy bits of material, but then batteries and hydraulics seem plain wrong on a sailing boat.

A huge part of the cost has been in the wing. Going back to soft rigs would cut the number of people needed to design and build one of these things in half as the guys who design the wing are completely separate to the guys that design the boat.

There's been a lot of cost in other areas as well though because nobody has seriously match raced big cats like the AC72's. For instance the chase boats have to keep so 400hp is now out to 1200hp and they're finding it difficult to keep up at times. Further down the chain, have you seen the gear the guys are wearing?? It's all needed for safety reasons but it's definitely not a $20 Warehouse wetsuit.

[ckai]

There's been a lot of cost in other areas as well though because nobody has seriously match raced big cats like the AC72's. For instance the chase boats have to keep so 400hp is now out to 1200hp and they're finding it difficult to keep up at times. Further down the chain, have you seen the gear the guys are wearing?? It's all needed for safety reasons but it's definitely not a $20 Warehouse wetsuit.

To put it in perspective, one foil alone is around $400,000. So to put it in context, an F1 steering wheel costs the same. Compare that to the total cost of the entire car and it's similar money for an important, but small in comparison, piece of equipment.

To be honest, I would have thought the complexities of a fabric 'wing' and getting it to work like the fixed wing would be reason enough not to go that way. Yeah there's some massive costs in them but shit, that's some crazy workings to get a fabric to perform the same.

The biggest thing is getting a fabric sail to work with the foils in the same way as the fixed versions do. I just can't see how you would get the fine tuning needed. They'd be even more temperamental bitches.

[kevfromcoro]

are the ozzys biffed out?
not getting any coverage here

[ellipsis]

...P Class, America's Cup regatta down in Foveaux Strait...now that would be worth watching...could add it to the Burt Munro festivities, as I'm sure they could squeeze another event in...

[george formby]

Even a crappy old Hobie 16 generates an awesome amount of power in the right conditions. The feeling when it suddenly goes 'twang' and accelerates is something to behold. Gawd knows what it must feel like on those monsters....

Yeah, I occasionally sail on a 50ft trimaran and it's a beast. We race & beat the fast ferry from an (almost) standing start between Russell & Paihia. 0 to 20 knots in a twinkling.

I was wondering how many of the sailors ride bikes after watching Dean Barker chuck his boat right on it's ear in one of the races, it looked like a race bike flipping from peg to peg then having the throttle cracked open at the apex. Spectacular stuff.

I reckon the crews of the chase boats should get a bit of sympathy, too. Smacking across San Francisco Bay chop at 40+ knots cannot be pleasant.

[Swoop]

are the ozzys biffed out?
not getting any coverage here

The Australians decided not to come out and play this time around.

Perhaps we could send them Russell Coutts as a gesture of good will?

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

The mericans spat the dummy and flew the white flag for the second race, wonder if they will get any gear breakages that will come back to haunt them.

Do you recon sail NZ will purchase these puppies at the end of all this then we all get the opportunity to go for a skid?

[Mental Trousers]

I was wondering how many of the sailors ride bikes after watching Dean Barker chuck his boat right on it's ear in one of the races, it looked like a race bike flipping from peg to peg then having the throttle cracked open at the apex. Spectacular stuff.

Only one I know of is Grant Dalton. Often see him at Hampton Downs for track days. Obviously, that's only when he's not under contract for yachting cos they don't like him doing anything dangerous (as if being onboard a 5 ton temperamental racing monster at 40 knots is safe).

[Mental Trousers]

To put it in perspective, one foil alone is around $400,000. So to put it in context, an F1 steering wheel costs the same. Compare that to the total cost of the entire car and it's similar money for an important, but small in comparison, piece of equipment.

To be honest, I would have thought the complexities of a fabric 'wing' and getting it to work like the fixed wing would be reason enough not to go that way. Yeah there's some massive costs in them but shit, that's some crazy workings to get a fabric to perform the same.

The biggest thing is getting a fabric sail to work with the foils in the same way as the fixed versions do. I just can't see how you would get the fine tuning needed. They'd be even more temperamental bitches.

Apparently combining soft rigs and foils isn't that difficult, but it does require finer control over the foils than the current rules allow to ensure safe and stable foiling.

Larry Ellison wanted to really do things differently with this America's Cup so they wrote the class rules to make the boats totally different from anything previously seen, which is where the wings came from. Wings have an advantage over sails by being able to extract that last <5% of speed out of a breeze, but as the old adage goes the last 5% of performance costs 95% of the budget. Sails, however, have the advantage in that you can change them in the middle of the race to suit the course and conditions. This is something that's really missing with the AC72's and it's something I'd like to see brought back in the next cup. Managing sails is an integral part of sailing from the smallest dinghy to the largest luxury yacht.

[george formby]

Only one I know of is Grant Dalton. Often see him at Hampton Downs for track days. Obviously, that's only when he's not under contract for yachting cos they don't like him doing anything dangerous (as if being onboard a 5 ton temperamental racing monster at 40 knots is safe).

I guess that's part of the spectator appeal. It can go so wrong so quickly. As we have tragically seen.
In one of the races the Oracle boat dug it's snouts in & the onboard cameras showed the crew doing horizontal bungee jumping. Looked bruising.
First time I've ever ooohed & aaaaahed over sailing.

[ckai]

Apparently combining soft rigs and foils isn't that difficult, but it does require finer control over the foils than the current rules allow to ensure safe and stable foiling.

Larry Ellison wanted to really do things differently with this America's Cup so they wrote the class rules to make the boats totally different from anything previously seen, which is where the wings came from. Wings have an advantage over sails by being able to extract that last <5% of speed out of a breeze, but as the old adage goes the last 5% of performance costs 95% of the budget. Sails, however, have the advantage in that you can change them in the middle of the race to suit the course and conditions. This is something that's really missing with the AC72's and it's something I'd like to see brought back in the next cup. Managing sails is an integral part of sailing from the smallest dinghy to the largest luxury yacht.

Yeah the sail changing does add another dimension. I'm not really missing the whole spinnaker etc thing though (can't help these suckers mind you). I suppose the wings are a different type of sail management though. It'll definitely be interesting to see which way the winner goes. Ellison, as much as I'm not really a fan, has certainly brought some excitement to it.

I also have a chuckle every time their rule changes, brought in to bring the sailing back into it, come and bite them in the ass. But that's another topic.