2-strokes in MotoGP?

[steveyb]

Here ya go, this'll do ya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_diesel_engine

[slowpoke]

In the model in my head, two pump systems for induction is best rather than a tank . Solid drive to get it running down low, (supercharger), and pressure driven for the higher revs, (turbo charger).

That way, the narrow power spread can be overcome too. And ya don't have to burn oil.

Here ya go, this'll do ya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_diesel_engine

Dr Steve's on to it Drew, I remember years and years ago working on old Detroit (EMD) 2 stroke diesel gensets that used a turbocharger/supercharger combo.

[Drew]

Dr Steve's on to it Drew, I remember years and years ago working on old Detroit (EMD) 2 stroke diesel gensets that used a turbocharger/supercharger combo.

The theory is pretty simple. Timing is an issue, in that the exhaust still needs to be a hole in the bore. Opening the inlet early to complete the evacuation is simple, but the overlap needs to reduce as the revs and boost climb I should think. So a BMW rip off sliding cam perhaps.

Shit, the exhaust port can't be open until the piston skirt covers it. Otherwise all the oil ya don't need to burn anymore, is gonna make a break for it...hmmm. Obvious weak spot in the workings of my imaginary motor.

Someone with a clue, build this for me please. I'm not bright enough.

Oh, I'm well aware that two stroke diesel engines already work. But they're not trying to make masses of power and revs. Just torque over a narrower rev spread than a KX80

[BMWST?]

Rotary valves a la kawasaki etc,they can open and close indepedently of piston timing

from the tag

[Metastable]

Remove the 4 stroke 1000cc rule and it'd be a true prototype series again.

TRUE.... oh and toss the semiauto trany and have a stock ECU with little brain power so that they can't use traction control... unlimited fuel... keep the spec tires.

Then you end up with a situation where they can get more power than they can use... then the best rider starts to play more of a factor as opposed to just the guy who is merely precise at steering.

(don't get me wrong, the current crop are amazing riders.... and might still be the ones on top without all the rider aids)

[mr bucketracer]

why do you call the 2 strokes prototypes ? and not the 4 stroke motor gp bikes?

[Dave-]

why do you call the 2 strokes prototypes ? and not the 4 stroke motor gp bikes?

Because they're not sufficiently informed to make an observation. But due to personal fulfilment feel a need and therefore do so without considering the consequential impact of their observation on the perception of their intelligence by other forum members.

[mr bucketracer]

Because they're not sufficiently informed to make an observation. But due to personal fulfilment feel a need and therefore do so without considering the consequential impact of their observation on the perception of their intelligence to other forum members.

are you into politics (-;

[steveyb]

KTM Moto3 engine uses radial valves.

[F5 Dave]

NSR500 uses power valves.
And reed valves
Control slicks use tyre valves.
Ahh I can do this all night.

[turns to self]I cannot do this all night.(Mongrels ref)

[husaberg]

. . .and the rules forbade it (hey that's probably the first time I've used that word). The FIM in their infinite wisdom, presumably as they were giving handies under the sheets to the Evil empire (H*nda) wanted to make sure 2 stroke performance increase was stifled as much as possible. Honda did actually test FI, but not direct injection.

Cost? you're kidding me? compared to now you could throw heaps at a 2 stroke & still not come close. Injection has shown decent fuel useage decreases.

Nah .....Honda not only tested they raced for a whole season......... a Fuel injected NSR500 it made no more power was more twitchy Doohan wasn't interested Itoh rode it it was trapped faster at Hokenheim (But Itoh was tiny and didn't have a bung leg so he could tuck in more)
As Dave said Honda pursued FI primarily to reduce fuel consumption and Emissions.
The Two strokes 500's were dropped (which was a shame) cause they lost there relevance.
No one was selling 500 two strokes but were selling heaps of 4 cylinder 4 strokes.........

[F5 Dave]

^{yeah but they didn't test direct injection direct injection did they? Well except in the EXP2 or whatever it was. But that was because rules didn't preclude it for desert racing. Some great engineers at Honda. Wasted due to their corporate policy of evil half time engines.}

[husaberg]

^{yeah but they didn't test direct injection direct injection did they? Well except in the EXP2 or whatever it was. But that was because rules didn't preclude it for desert racing. Some great engineers at Honda. Wasted due to their corporate policy of evil half time engines.}

I think the EXP way have been conventional injection well the version i seen was they ran it with Carbs as well.
The EXP was clever in its Trapping valve and Knock running and all the rest of the drama. I bet they did test Direct, but it gave less power so it wasn't worthwhile for the NSR..
Cagiva also raced the injection (or at least practiced) Fogerty fell off it in England and refused to race it as a wild card at least.
I had posted it on ESE ages ago along with the EXP2 and the Fuel injected NSR500 stuff. From memory Aprillia tried it but it was to twitchy.
(Someone said it was revisited successfully later and they remaped it to be less precise and it was fine then)
Cagivas interests were mainly in the packaging as it could allow narrower angles and short straighter inlets or even even disk valves.
Now Cagiva had some awesome engineers but were far too chaotic in there application unfortunately.

[husaberg]

Some stuff in the text from memory was wrong but what the hey........

[husaberg]

The Honda Stuff will be buried here when i can be arsed to find it oh its only the H20 stuff there...