When did conspiracy theorists become seen as tin foil hat nutters (A real conspiracy)

**mashman** · 27th September 2013, 21:09

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

e.g. I actually respect mashman, but heck, I've seen a post where his "logical argument" really did boil down to "Governments have lied therefore it's a fact that the thing I'm saying is a lie, is a lie". That's just nuts.

I r respected

are you sure you want to crack the seventh seal

. If it's the post I'm thinking about, I can only suggest you read it again. Govts have experimented on their populations and admitted it, not at the time, but some years later when documents become declassified. What are govts not capable of? Merely pointing out that I wouldn't put a 9/11 passed them at all and it's such a mess in regards to the evidence, I see no reason at all to exclude them from the list of suspects... in fact what I have seen and read, even the pro-govt doco/view of what happened, bumps them to the top of the list alongside AQ. A tie if you will. By design if you want.

**Woodman** · 28th September 2013, 08:09

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

Nah, the thing is I've been there and done that. 9/11 was a few years ago, now, and I've been through the discussions long ago on forums involving actual aerospace engineers and such.

I'm not wasting my time on youtube videos - they only exist to sway the gullible. Show me somewhere with text - at least I can scan that to see if there are new arguments. Then I'll know I'm not wasting my time on the same old same old innuendo and rubbish. (Geez, I've seen little posted here that's new or even half-way logical.)

(I once sat through a youtube video where a guy stuffed a few old newspapers into a wire animal cage (it was for hamsters or cats or something). He stuck a cinder block on the cage, then lit the newspapers. That the block didn't crush the cage was then somehow "proof" that the WTC must have been demolished.

I mean, FFS, that's the kind of "proof" on youtube that the tin foilers swallow.)

... but anyway, that's why I'm not really bothering to debate the (non-existing) issues here; I'm more commenting on the tin foil mind set.

e.g. I actually respect mashman, but heck, I've seen a post where his "logical argument" really did boil down to "Governments have lied therefore it's a fact that the thing I'm saying is a lie, is a lie". That's just nuts.

Great post, and to re-iterate, it is not the fact that there are not conspiracies, it is the fact that the tinfoil hat wearers do not consider that any government is telling the truth therefore youtube must be true. Its ridiculous, amusing and bloody entertaining.

**pzkpfw** · 28th September 2013, 10:31

Originally Posted by Katman

I suppose that response is much easier than trying to answer any of the questions on the videos.

Easy?

You mean like basing an argument on "go look at this youtube video"?!

Any fool can make a youtube video, and it's very easy to splurge a bunch of questions out and make innuendos that make other people swallow the idea. It's a well known psychological effect that quantity of argument can make the argument seem accurate - even if the quality of argument is crap.

That's why, in a discussion forum like this, I'd prefer to see the argument done in text. Make a claim, and give the background. Then anyone who cares can do research to counter that claim and post up the response. If you did that - I'd respond to you (though I have to note I'd have little time for that for a few weeks, due to other reasons). That'd make more sense than simply flinging youtube URL's back and forth. (I'd expect there to be more tin foil videos on youtube than reality. That'd be more about the kind of people who bother making youtube videos than any "evidence" of who is "right", so I'm not going to get into a game of youtube-snap.)

**pzkpfw** · 28th September 2013, 10:35

Originally Posted by Woodman

Great post, and to re-iterate, it is not the fact that their are not conspiracies, it is the fact that the tinfoil hat wearers do not consider that any government is telling the truth therefore youtube must be true. Its ridiculous, amusing and bloody entertaining.

Yep.

This is why I like to point out the 100% or B&W thinking of the tin foilers. They like to portray themselves as the open-minded ones; but really they are just jumping to a conclusion that suits them, and doing it by applying absolutes to things. "Governments always lie!" etc. It is us realists that are the open minded ones, we know and freely admit that Governments sometimes lie. (And even then, it'd sometimes be for good reasons). We know the World is grey, not black and white.

**mashman** · 28th September 2013, 10:53

Dear youtube deniers. If the sole basis of your position in regards to tin foil hatting is because a vid is posted, then you do yourselves, and others, a disservice. A video is posted for ease of access to information that in many cases has been sourced from many documents. This is exactly the same as watching a documentary or watching the news. Evidence is gathered and opinion is offered. In other words the legwork has already been done and wrapped up in a pretty parcel for people to view and make their own minds up. Heaven forbid anyone might actually do a little reading themselves to counter/confirm what is being put forwards by the tin foil hat brigade

.

NB: Just because you can "debunk" 5 or 6 points in hours of video that has taken years of research does not immediately rule out the rest of the research.

So carry on denying on the sole basis that someone posted a youtube video

**mashman** · 28th September 2013, 11:00

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

Yep.

This is why I like to point out the 100% or B&W thinking of the tin foilers. They like to portray themselves as the open-minded ones; but really they are just jumping to a conclusion that suits them, and doing it by applying absolutes to things. "Governments always lie!" etc. It is us realists that are the open minded ones, we know and freely admit that Governments sometimes lie. (And even then, it'd sometimes be for good reasons). We know the World is grey, not black and white.

What utter bullshit. You need to open your mind a little further me thinks if all you have is that TFH's see things in black and white and apply absolutes to the things they read/see. The stupid belief that all it takes is a youtube vid to seal the deal is actually beyond stupid as every single piece of research that is undertaken follows exactly the same processes and patterns as any other research undertaken (i.e. climate change, PC development, solar dynamics, the age of the Universe etc...)

p.s. love your shade of grey label that you pin on the TFH's... that shows a real open mind.

**Katman** · 28th September 2013, 11:02

Originally Posted by pzkpfw

Any fool can make a youtube video.....

What do you mean by "make a youtube video"?

The videos that I'm referring to make up about 5 hours of viewing and are presented in the manner of a (long) feature length documentary. It just so happens that someone has also uploaded it to youtube.

The fact that it appears on youtube in no way lessens the credibility of the information that is presented.

To suggest that anything presented on youtube is automatically crap shows a very twisted (and fundamentally flawed) argument and indicates that you really have nothing to offer in response.

**Woodman** · 28th September 2013, 12:06

Originally Posted by mashman

What utter bullshit. You need to open your mind a little further me thinks if all you have is that TFH's see things in black and white and apply absolutes to the things they read/see. The stupid belief that all it takes is a youtube vid to seal the deal is actually beyond stupid as every single piece of research that is undertaken follows exactly the same processes and patterns as any other research undertaken (i.e. climate change, PC development, solar dynamics, the age of the Universe etc...)

p.s. love your shade of grey label that you pin on the TFH's... that shows a real open mind.

You should tell that Crocodile guy to open his mind. With his attitude to anyone that questions his theories or sources, is it any wonder the TFW's * have such a bad name. Seriously, he comes across as a raving lunatic. He may well be right, but who the fuck believes raving lunatics?

* Conspiracy theorists.

**mashman** · 28th September 2013, 12:25

Originally Posted by Woodman

You should tell that Crocodile guy to open his mind. With his attitude to anyone that questions his theories or sources, is it any wonder the TFW's * have such a bad name. Seriously, he comes across as a raving lunatic. He may well be right, but who the fuck believes raving lunatics?

* Conspiracy theorists.

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa... sorry, but I find that rather amusing. I read his posts differently and not just the on-topic stuff. Funny thing is, the content of his posts isn't that different to any other's on here from either side of the conspiracy fence. His repartee is by far superior however and his posts are much more entertaining to read than, well, everyone else's. Grow a pair and engage, but please stop whining like a POM... that's my job.

NB for pzkpfw/carbonhed/Oscar and that wanker Woodman: That does not mean I swallow what he gives me without question. Katman and Hinny do, but that's because they're mindless morons who see things in Black & White and need to be led using pictures instead of the written word. Fuckin muppets.

**Woodman** · 28th September 2013, 12:32

Originally Posted by mashman

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa... sorry, but I find that rather amusing. I read his posts differently and not just the on-topic stuff. Funny thing is, the content of his posts isn't that different to any other's on here from either side of the conspiracy fence. His repartee is by far superior however and his posts are much more entertaining to read than, well, everyone else's. Grow a pair and engage, but please stop whining like a POM... that's my job.

NB for pzkpfw/carbonhed/Oscar and that wanker Woodman: That does not mean I swallow what he gives me without question. Katman and Hinny do, but that's because they're mindless morons who see things in Black & White and need to be led using pictures instead of the written word. Fuckin muppets.

The atom bomb version of trolling.

**Oscar** · 28th September 2013, 12:42

Originally Posted by Woodman

The atom bomb version of trolling.

A fucking idiot with a high opinion of himself posting on the interweb...imagine that!

**mashman** · 28th September 2013, 12:56

Originally Posted by Woodman

The atom bomb version of trolling.

... nah, I'd go for information with a smile.

**Drew** · 28th September 2013, 13:43

Originally Posted by Katman

What do you mean by "make a youtube video"?

The videos that I'm referring to make up about 5 hours of viewing and are presented in the manner of a (long) feature length documentary. It just so happens that someone has also uploaded it to youtube.

The fact that it appears on youtube in no way lessens the credibility of the information that is presented.

To suggest that anything presented on youtube is automatically crap shows a very twisted (and fundamentally flawed) argument and indicates that you really have nothing to offer in response.

I think I'm gonna start a thread, to get you laid man. You've got too much time on your fucken hands clearly!

Weren't you dogging that bosslady chick? I'm sure that's a better use of your time, even if you do need to fix her bikes for free.