Suspension history of USDs?

[husaberg]

the honda NR500 was the first roadracer i think had the start of a modern looking USD forks

I have a write up somewhere the bike had a lot of firsts on it side mounted rads etc etc.
it also had some bloody silly things as well. Ron Williams (manxton) sorted out the MK2 versions with a conventional chassis with conventional size wheels etc etc.

[ktm84mxc]

The first NR500 was a racing disaster but was a designing master piece oval pistons, 8 valves per cylinder, side mount radiators, monologue chassis etc.
It was so slow a TZ350 or KR350 would give it a serious hurry up. The first NSR same thing fuel tank under the engine , pipes were the tank should be , super fast engine but it would not turn corners. For a long time engines out performed the chassis they were fitted in.

[manxkiwi]

http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgur...ed=0CFUQ9QEwBw

Bugger me! I bow to your superior knowledge. Next question; did they race with that set up?

[manxkiwi]

Now look what you've made me do! Had to spend an hour searching pictures of NR500s, he he. Not that I mind.

Looks like Grants' Silvestone bike had that set up. Though there are versions with conventional forks too.

You get a stripe on your anorak Mr. Bucketracer.

[F5 Dave]

The first NR500 was a racing disaster but was a designing master piece oval pistons, 8 valves per cylinder, side mount radiators, monologue chassis etc.
It was so slow a TZ350 or KR350 would give it a serious hurry up. . .

That's because the engine had one design fault they couldn't overcome. - It only worked 1/2 the time. Every alternate downstroke failed to produce any power.

[ktm84mxc]

True the rules of the time rendered it a failure eg maximum 4 cylinders, 500 cc max capacity.
Honda tried to build a V8/V4 using oval pistons etc.
Remember all of this happened some 35 yrs ago when the best street bike was a GS1000s or CB900f, remarkable achievement and lead to the VFR series and RC30/45, RCV etc.

[mr bucketracer]

That's because the engine had one design fault they couldn't overcome. - It only worked 1/2 the time. Every alternate downstroke failed to produce any power.

but did make a amazing 120hp double that is 240hp like a moto gp engine

[mr bucketracer]

Now look what you've made me do! Had to spend an hour searching pictures of NR500s, he he. Not that I mind.

Looks like Grants' Silvestone bike had that set up. Though there are versions with conventional forks too.

You get a stripe on your anorak Mr. Bucketracer.

oh lol my first stripe

[Robert Taylor]

That's because the engine had one design fault they couldn't overcome. - It only worked 1/2 the time. Every alternate downstroke failed to produce any power.

Yes, these 1/2 time engines need capacity to produce similiar power. Look at MX. Problem is when they spill their guts ( and they do ) its mortgage your house material. Progress?

Less is more

[husaberg]

Now look what you've made me do! Had to spend an hour searching pictures of NR500s, he he. Not that I mind.

Looks like Grants' Silvestone bike had that set up. Though there are versions with conventional forks too.

You get a stripe on your anorak Mr. Bucketracer.

I will post an article as it appears i are getting usurped in the Anorak stakes.
I am surprised you guys spend so long on the net without posting this though (will add later)

You can have it as a ringtone here.....
http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/histor...nes/index.html
The other galleries section show and sound the NR500 the nsr500 http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/histor.../02/index.htmlrc211v rc166,rc142 etc.


They would get by because they have no options. When the FIM brought in the rules for how many cylinders limiting at first the 50's (later 80cc's)to one. The 125's to two (later one) and the 250's and 350's to two 500's two four the one common rule was gearbox's with no more than 6 gears were allowed.
Remember the speed (155 to 160mph) i posted for the Yamaha 250V4 it took years for that to be matched with the more restrictive rules.
Suzuki when they pulled out in the 60's had been testing the 50cc/3 with god know's how many gears(at least 18) The riders were faster on the twin though.

http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/history/NR500/
You can hear it as well on the site same as the NSR and the RC166 etc etc great site
scanning story as i type.
As you will see in the article the origional was a V8 and was legal because it had only 4 combsution chambers honda wouldn't race it even though it was legal as they didn't want to be accused of being dodgy........
The 250 twin Turbo they built for Freddy was also oval pistoned and made more power i posted some stuff about it a while back can't remeber where but i will link it later.The rule allowing its use never evenuated so it was shelved.

[pete376403]

I read a really good article by Gordon Jennings (or maybe Kevin Cameron) about the NR500, the writer predicted the whole engine layout based on viewing and measuring 1 conrod, combined with the rumours that had gone around about the bike. The predictiony turned out to be remarkably close when Honda released details of the engine.

The NR could have been something if Honda hadn't felt the need to combine so many untried ideas in one hit.

[husaberg]

I read a really good article by Gordon Jennings (or maybe Kevin Cameron) about the NR500, the writer predicted the whole engine layout based on viewing and measuring 1 conrod, combined with the rumours that had gone around about the bike. The predictiony turned out to be remarkably close when Honda released details of the engine.

The NR could have been something if Honda hadn't felt the need to combine so many untried ideas in one hit.

all the engineers were bloody young and were blooded on the NR500 given free reign as it were.
Afterwards once Honda got it going good..... they did what they could have done all along and built the NS500 and won with it.......
Corporate version of jerking off.... they did the same with the EXP2
Anyway last page of the NR500 i also have a write up of the 750 (not the road one) but the Endurance racer that Mal Cambelll raced in the Swan series or what not.
The NR500 write up was in Classic Racer in 1987.........

[ktm84mxc]

Yes a great article I remember a large article in Cycle World in I think 1980 on the NR500 with pxts of the engine internals and dual conrods etc a in depth story. the technology used was beyond even F one cars at the time engine wise. Hell the engine could run to almost 19000 rpm etc on a normally aspirated engine.

[husaberg]

Yes a great article I remember a large article in Cycle World in I think 1980 on the NR500 with pxts of the engine internals and dual conrods etc a in depth story. the technology used was beyond even F one cars at the time engine wise. Hell the engine could run to almost 19000 rpm etc on a normally aspirated engine.

they ran them past 22000 according to some up to 28000 the tacho was not numbered at times.
Cameron mentions octane does funny things at ultra high RPM like it doesn't need over 80 octane etc and won't detonate at all.
I have another one somewhere with the 500 but no idea what Mag it was in.

[manxkiwi]

Back to the subject of forks for a moment. Robert, when you say USDs have a slight advantage in racing, are you meaning to work on? From a sus. tech. point of view.

As I said earlier in this thread, I don't think there's a massive performance/rigidity benefit over RWUs. Does it have anything to do with unsprung weight? Would love to hear your wiewpoint on them.