Punk Arse

[Brian d marge]

me
London back in me yoof

exploited , 100 club , the angel ? in islington hammersmith palace , ( motorhead )

Squatted from 83. 84 until 94 I think , Doors were my speciality

Sir George Robey , We got kicked out of the worlds end in Camden ..

The ska festivals , sod those poseurs on the kings rd......

oh yes , welcome to my world

loud proud and punk , its a way of thinking

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Arguably it started with bands like the MC5 and The Stooges and a lot of the "garage" bands of the '60's: The East Coast of the US particularly. The genesis of the scene was in New York City and centred around The Velvet Underground. Well actually they were kind of a house band at Andy Warhol's factory, but thats not relevant for present purposes. So you get all the aggression, all the anger, all the attitude and some raw songwriting.

I am a massive fan of The Velvet Underground in particular but if you dont own them you should pick up records by these "proto-punk" bands. There is an MC5 "Best of" that is good (you have to love a record that starts with a man SCREAMING "Its time to kick out the jams, motherfuckers....." pretty confronting in, what, 1968? Particulary when on the left coast its (supposedly) all fucking hippies and flowers in their hair and all that shit. And everyone should own Iggy and the Stooges "Raw Power" (I'm a street walking cheetah with a heart full of naplam" I mean, come on!). And while you're at it, grab the NUGGETS collection put together by Lenny Kaye: its just been reissued and its really good. And the near-definitive Velvets collection is the "Peel Slowly and See" boxset. After the Velvets imploded in 1971-ish, the NY underground scene spawned bands like the New York Dolls. EVERY hair metal band in the world is ripping off the dolls. Youtube up some footage. Plus they were decent songwriters. That was an early scene centred on the Mercer ARts Centre. It fell down. As in collapsed one day. Slightly later (1974/75) you get the CBGB's scene: which produced Talking Heads, The Ramones, Patti Smith, Blondie, Television and a host of lesser known bands. And birthed electronic music (check out a band called Suicide which is two dudes and two keyboards and a lot of violence. In like 1975.

The connection with UK punk is that at one point Malcolm McLaren managed the Dolls and they toured in the UK. And so did the Ramones (who famously hated it). The things that defined punk music, and made it great were fairly clearly cross pollinated into the UK from that US scene: in particular the I do not give a fuck attitude, the I will do it myself ethos, and the intense fan loyalty. Not to mention the indifference of most music fans and the antipathy of the rock establishment and the establishment generally. If you listen to bootlegs of early Pistols shows for example they were a pretty tight, decent band.

But something that intense does not last long and by 1977 it was pretty much all over, just as the caricatures and public caught on. The people involved (and maybe the fans) kept their ideals (DIY, I dont care if you dont like it, and moved on to other things).

The best punk song since "God Save the Queen" in my view is "Killing in the name of" by Rage Against the Machine.


wall of text sorry: I am a bit of an anorak about this shit

bang on

Also you add to that Parliament Funkadelic ..

punk came from the feeling at the time

I was in the east end at that time and I can tell you , it was fked . The housing estates were a different universe. ( I loved them )

Stephen

RIP Margret

these were my folks ....

[Brian d marge]

I went to the Clash at the ChCh town hall. The skinheads showed their appreciation by gobbing at the band. Joe Strummer stopped the concert until they stopped expectorating! Went to the the Ramones at the same venue-right at the front by a speaker stack...ears rung for three days.............

I was there to !!! and err I know which skinheads you are talking about !!! they are up in wellington now HAHAAA

Stephen

[cynna]

ive always had an affection for punk music, the sex pistols song 'bodies' was probably the turning point when i heard it about the age of 10. so then followed all the brit punk of the late 70's and early eighties, oi! music, skinhead bands, ska and reggae. i have a wide range of other musical interests but i still turn to punk when im in the mood

check out bulletbelts cover of this on youtube - opps i deleted your song mistaken identity cover by bulletbelt

[unstuck]

Punk is an attitude, not a style of music.

This was the first PUNK band I listened to.......

Punks have been in society since ages ago, long before "PUNK" music came on the scene. It,s an attitude towards life, not a musical genre.

[jim.cox]

Here is a better question:

Were The Ramones punk? Or Television? Or Talking Heads? Or Blondie?

I found it pretty hard to fit a mohawk under a helmet - so I guess I that makes me more Biker than Punk - but here's my take on Henry's questions...

A: Yes - Pretty much the American prototypes

B: Who?

C: No - they were/are many genres, but I dont think any of them could be called punk. Bryne might have been a prototype rapper though, check out "My Life In the Bush of Ghosts"

D: No - far too commercially / pop oriented


Next question: Who was the best Ska band?

[SVboy]

To my way of thinking Punk was a genre that spawned a lot of fresh music and closed down the era of pompous prog rock. Dont get me wrong, I love mucho 70,s music but a lot was dreary and lacking true energy. Punk was a fresh kickstart to many new directions-not all of them good. New romantics anyone?

[Crasherfromwayback]

First concert I ever went to was The Clash at the Logan Campbell Centre in 1982.

In Welly here I saw Siouxsie & The Banshees (my fav band at the time), The Cure, New Order, Motorhead and Sonic Youth. All fucking awesome concerts. Never seen The Clash live though fuck it all.

[Crasherfromwayback]

not the Adam Ant you mean (White wedding).

Think you're getting Adam Ant and Billy Idol muddled up mate. And certainly early Blondie could be considered punk(ish).

[eelracing]

Arguably it started with bands like the MC5

I went youtube trawling...and just fucking WOW,i've been living under a rock.
I'm off to buy an album.

[MisterD]

Next question: Who was the best Ska band?

The Specials absolutely no question. They still *are* the best Ska band...but I do like Madness a lot too and the fact they've continued to evolve and make new music. Arguably "Liberty of Norton Folgate" isn't Ska anymore, and certainly a number of my fellow scooterists were disappointed by it, but I think it's a fantastic album makes me a bit homesick for London even though I never really liked living there.

You can't pick a single place where Punk started, just like you can't say where Metal started, you can find seeds for it all over the place

[MisterD]

Who says punk's not dead?



This makes me even more than Britney in a Motorhead T-shirt.

[HenryDorsetCase]

B: Who?

C: No - they were/are many genres, but I dont think any of them could be called punk. Bryne might have been a prototype rapper though, check out "My Life In the Bush of Ghosts"

D: No - far too commercially / pop oriented


Next question: Who was the best Ska band?

Television were one of the great CBGB's bands, I can't believe you've not heard of them. There was a real "literary" thread running through that scene: Patti Smith was a poet, and she and Tom Verlaine had a wee literary/poetry magazine going at one point. Richard Hell and Tom Verlaine started Television: the issue was that drugs fucked them up, but you should check out their first and best album "Marquee Moon". After they split Richard formed Richard Hell and the Voidoids which despite the pretentious name gave the world two of the best punk songs ever written: "Love Comes in Spurts" and of course "Blank Generation". Do yourself a favour and check them out. Also the re-formed Television are touring and playing the Powerstation this year. (sans Richard)

[youtube]TP3x-VdOb44[/youtube]


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C: David Byrne is more "punk" than anyone. He has never ever given a shit what others thought, and always ploughed his own very quirky furrow. They were eventually commercially successful, sure, but check out his subsequent career for the epitome of "doing it my way" and "fuck you I won't do what you tell me". My life in the Bush of Ghosts is one of my favourite records of all time by the way.

D: Sure, Blondie became commercially successful. So what?. They were there at the beginning, they did the hard yards, and they all did their own thing. There was a focus on Debbie Harry but the band was really good and so was the songwriting. And again, the DIY ethic is there.


A lot of people think that "punk" bands toiled away in relative obscurity because they wanted to. Demonstrably not true. Best example of that is The Ramones. Johnny is on record as saying that they wanted to be bigger than the Beatles and they were trying for broad mainstream commercial success. My point being that commercial success does not mean that anyone has compromised some outsider imposed straitjacket of what "punk" is: in fact in my view that is the single worst thing about the scene. It directly equates to Harley Davidson. The worst thing about the brand is some of its fans.


As for the ska question: Jamaican or British?

My favourite of the Jamaicans is probably Toots and the Maytals (Pressure Drop, 54-56, Monkey Man) or the Skatalites (Guns of Navarone) but to be fair, that as a genre in its heyday was like early rock and roll: It was a singles based format. So a lot of the really good songs didnt make it to albums, or the albums werent great. As an example I have an album by Delroy Wilson (name checked in the Clash's "White Man in Hammersmith Palais" which is, to be fair, not great. The Trojan, Studio One, and Lee Perry collected boxsets are really good though. I've a bunch of them if you want a headsup.

Of the british "new wave" ones it would have to be The Specials: Jerry Dammers is a really really good songwriter. And you know, "Ghost Town". I also really liked The Beat, and Bad Manners for a bit of skinhead party fun. Not to forget The Selecter.

I fucking hate UB40 though of course they were the most commercially successful. Schmaltzy pappy crap. And who covers Neil Diamond for fucks sake?

I don't acknowledge any of the american third wave ones. your NO Doubts etc. they are as bad ad Green Day or NOFX (IMNHAAO)

[HenryDorsetCase]

To my way of thinking Punk was a genre that spawned a lot of fresh music and closed down the era of pompous prog rock. Dont get me wrong, I love mucho 70,s music but a lot was dreary and lacking true energy. Punk was a fresh kickstart to many new directions-not all of them good. New romantics anyone?

The key difference for me was that it was as a musical genre picked up on by "The Establishment" in the UK and taken very seriously as a political movement.

examples: tours by the Sex Pistols stopped, them getting arrested on that boat, demonstrations agin' it... all that.


And as a threat to social order. That just didnt happen to other genres of popular music. And in fact the same level of public outrage hadnt been seen since early rock n roll or when those numpties started burning Beatles albums because John Lennon said they were bigger than Jesus.

Didnt happen after or during "Grunge" which is the most comparable watershed. Didnt happen when rap went mainstream (though I love a lot of that early stuff - very political: it wasnt always about dirty bitches and too much money).

[HenryDorsetCase]

This is a really good overview of that early 1970's New York scene for those interested:

http://www.amazon.com/D-I-Y-Blank-Ge.../dp/B0000032YI


No Talking Heads obviously because they couldnt make the licencing work.

I think the Wayne County song is only there because it namechecks a lot of hte bands. But you have to love the guy/girl.. ex gridiron player (big tough lad undergoes sex change to become Jayne County)