ACC Rant - Advice appreciated

[oneblackflag]

My advise, get educated real quick, go to and have a quick read

http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/holidaysan...lationship.asp

You are entitled to 80% of your weekly wages, your employer has to pay you the first weeks wages.

Yes this is what has happened. I'm moaning about ACC taking my unpaid annual leave and the fact I've been sacked for having an injury at work which has led me to not be able to do said work. Thanks for that link

[Smifffy]

Contact your boss. Contact a relevant union. Contact Mobie (old DOL). If you got injured at work, then the DOL point of view is that work injured you. ACC won't give much of a shit if you got sacked, but Mobie may very well, and if work is in any way culpable, so will the district court judge hearing any case that mobie might bring. You'd be eligible for reparations. Also a good case for a PG for unjustified dismissal, although an ER ajudicator will consider whether your own actions contributed.

Fuck your boss. Obviously a cunt.

[oneblackflag]

My advise, get educated real quick, read......

http://www.dol.govt.nz/er/holidaysan...lationship.asp
http://www.acc.co.nz/making-a-claim/...-i-get/ECI0028
You are entitled to 80% of your weekly wages, your employer has to pay you the first weeks wages.

ERA related
http://www.peoplesmart.co.nz/SolveIT...ry-or-illness/

Thankyou mikeey,

Your second link has been especially helpful. (I work on a dairy farm). I think I have been unfairly sacked...

[oneblackflag]

Contact your boss. Contact a relevant union. Contact Mobie (old DOL). If you got injured at work, then the DOL point of view is that work injured you. ACC won't give much of a shit if you got sacked, but Mobie may very well, and if work is in any way culpable, so will the district court judge hearing any case that mobie might bring. You'd be eligible for reparations. Also a good case for a PG for unjustified dismissal, although an ER ajudicator will consider whether your own actions contributed.

Fuck your boss. Obviously a cunt.

Yes thanks I will. Yea he is a cunt...

[Oakie]

Firstly, your boss can't sack you for being unable to work. Get someone of a legal bent to write to him explaining that he's responsible for paying you until ACC accept liability for your income. If you can't afford a lawyer try asking WINZ to sort him out.

Edit: the boss can eventually sack you under what's called "frustration of contract", but we're talking fucking months before he gets to do that. .

Ah yes he can sack that quickly and no it doesn't have to be months. I nearly did it at the start of this week to someone who had been off for a month. In our case she was the only person in that position in our organisation and we couldn't carry it empty. It looked like it was going to be a few more weeks but fortunately she got a clearance to come back on Monday and saved us both some grief. There's no time guidline in legislation but the decision still has to be one a reasonable employer could take.

If it's the one person in the organisation who does that role you can go a whole lot quicker than if it's one machinist out of the hundred you employ.

Oh, there is still a correct process to go through ... meetings, oportunity for feedback etc. You can't just say "your job is gone"

[oneblackflag]

Ah yes he can sack that quickly and no it doesn't have to be months. I nearly did it at the start of this week to someone who had been off for a month. In our case she was the only person in that position in our organisation and we couldn't carry it empty. It looked like it was going to be a few more weeks but fortunately she got a clearance to come back on Monday and saved us both some grief. There's no time guidline in legislation but the decision still has to be one a reasonable employer could take.

Yes I do believe it can be done. My employer hasn't followed an acceptable process, or even got a medical opinion on when I can resume work, he could fill my job on a temp basis and I could do light duties (something he doesn't want me doing).

[Smifffy]

Ah yes he can sack that quickly and no it doesn't have to be months. I nearly did it at the start of this week to someone who had been off for a month. In our case she was the only person in that position in our organisation and we couldn't carry it empty. It looked like it was going to be a few more weeks but fortunately she got a clearance to come back on Monday and saved us both some grief. There's no time guidline in legislation but the decision still has to be one a reasonable employer could take.

If it's the one person in the organisation who does that role you can go a whole lot quicker than if it's one machinist out of the hundred you employ.

Oh, there is still a correct process to go through ... meetings, oportunity for feedback etc. You can't just say "your job is gone"

Surely you'd have to prove that it would cause undue hardship to hire a temp? That's what a reasonable employer might do.

[Oakie]

Surely you'd have to prove that it would cause undue hardship to hire a temp? That's what a reasonable employer might do.

Every case is different. In same cases a temp would be a good alternative to letting an employee go. Wouldn't have worked for us because temps for that role are rare an a lot more expensive than having a staff member in there. The only other 'Frustration of Contract' case I've been involved in was with a young lady who developed quite bad epiliepsy ... and I'm talking multiple seizures a day in the end. She couldn't work, there was no end in site so we terminated.

[Oakie]

You can't contract out of employment law. No matter what your boss or your employment contract says he can't sack you for being unable to work, end of story.

You cannot contract out of employment law ... true ... but this situation is allowed for in employment law so the boss is actually complying with the law (although in this case, perhaps he hasn't done all the steps necessary so perhaps not complied fully.)

'Sacked' has connotations of it being the employee's fault. What is happening is something like "I hired you to work 40 hours a week for me. You've become hurt and now you can't work for at least 9 weeks before surgery and then perhaps another 6 weeks after that. Sorry but you are unable to keep your contract with me to provide me with 40 hours a week so I'm terminating the contract".

[Berries]

The only other 'Frustration of Contract' case I've been involved in was with a young lady who developed quite bad epiliepsy ... and I'm talking multiple seizures a day in the end. She couldn't work, there was no end in site so we terminated.

That's a bit serious. Couldn't you have just sacked her?

[Akzle]

Yes this is what has happened. I'm moaning about ACC taking my unpaid annual leave and the fact I've been sacked for having an injury at work which has led me to not be able to do said work. Thanks for that link

and those are the two issues and they're separate.
on the up side, you now have a lot of time at home in front of google to learn to write strongly worded letters and annoy ACC on the telephone. (daily at least, hourly if you're that kind of guy)

as for the unfair dismissal, the employment relations authority will provide advice and i believe even mediation for free.

worst comes to it, get to legislation.co.nz and read the relevant jewshit.

[Smifffy]

You cannot contract out of employment law ... true ... but this situation is allowed for in employment law so the boss is actually complying with the law (although in this case, perhaps he hasn't done all the steps necessary so perhaps not complied fully.)

'Sacked' has connotations of it being the employee's fault. What is happening is something like "I hired you to work 40 hours a week for me. You've become hurt and now you can't work for at least 9 weeks before surgery and then perhaps another 6 weeks after that. Sorry but you are unable to keep your contract with me to provide me with 40 hours a week so I'm terminating the contract".

The thing that really needs to be established is: Is it "You've become hurt"? or is it "We have caused you to get hurt through being here, and our failure to provide a safe work place."?

[Ocean1]

You cannot contract out of employment law ... true ... but this situation is allowed for in employment law so the boss is actually complying with the law (although in this case, perhaps he hasn't done all the steps necessary so perhaps not complied fully.)

'Sacked' has connotations of it being the employee's fault. What is happening is something like "I hired you to work 40 hours a week for me. You've become hurt and now you can't work for at least 9 weeks before surgery and then perhaps another 6 weeks after that. Sorry but you are unable to keep your contract with me to provide me with 40 hours a week so I'm terminating the contract".

Yes, but as you pointed out the process and it's resolution has to be what a court would call "reasonable". And in most cases however "reasonable" we might consider such a move I'd say sacking (or terminating) an employee pretty much immediately after a work related injury wouldn't be seen as reasonable under employment law.

I once had someone on my books damned near a year after he fell down some steps (out of hrs) because that's what the court deemed "reasonable".

Fuckin' ouch.

[Katiepie]

Been off work now for over a month due to a back injury that happened at work (probably need surgery... still waiting on results of scans). Boss has now terminated my employment because I can't work (sustained injury from working for him ). ACC.... now tells me that my unused annual leave (about 4-5 weeks worth) will offset my ACC payments so in effect they basicly pinch my leave payment... this seems horribly unfair to me, I get swindled out of my money whereas someone who didn't have any annual leave owing would just keep receiving ACC...

Anyone else had this happen to them? Or anyone know how to avoid them getting their dirty hands on what's rightfully mine? I will seek some professional advice on this but would love to hear from YOU

Hey there buddy.

Yes same thing happened to me. After 5 weeks on ACC from a motorbike crash I recieved a voice message on my cell phone. It was my boss telling me that they had "disestablished" my role due to not being able to work as a result of my injuries. I had been with the company 8 years, 5 of which were full time.

It depends how they work it. They can not fire you. But they can disestablish your role. Have a chat to yoru case manager at ACC as they will provide you with the legal requirements the your employer needs to follow.

I know exactly where you are at mate and I can tell you it absolutely sucks big time! Wishing you all the best finding out your options.

[Ocean1]

It depepends how they work it. They can not fire you. But they can disestablish your role.

They can do that. They don't even have to commercially justify it.

But dog help 'em if they have anyone else doing a substantially similar role any time soon thereafter.