Some protest...

[SPman]

Oil companies know what they're doing, and have robust systems in place to minimise risks and prevent spillage or leakage.

Bullshit. Events around the world over the last 20+ years belie that fact. Oil companies are very good at shifting all responsibility for their multitudinous fuck ups onto the local communities and letting them swing. Their history is not good, despite all the "assurances" from those with vested interests. Also, the record of the 2 firms involved in NZ offshore drilling are not that great, and there are no real safeguards in place, despite Mr Shysters bland assurances. Combine that with NZ's "three dinghies and some scoops" oil spillage response team, and if the worst did happen, the coast would be fucked.

Charter fishers are some of the worst offenders. Look at what happens when they take out big groups and each person has a limit bag. 10 on the boat and everyone expects the limit to take home and everyone of them thinks they are being responsible fishers - collectively its a nightmare.

Private fishermen cause as much damage, if not more, to the local coastal fisheries, than the despised commercial fisheries - and god knows, they are bad enough!

[noobi]

Bullshit. Events around the world over the last 20+ years belie that fact. Oil companies are very good at shifting all responsibility for their multitudinous fuck ups onto the local communities and letting them swing. Their history is not good, despite all the "assurances" from those with vested interests. Also, the record of the 2 firms involved in NZ offshore drilling are not that great, and there are no real safeguards in place, despite Mr Shysters bland assurances. Combine that with NZ's "three dinghies and some scoops" oil spillage response team, and if the worst did happen, the coast would be fucked.

Dont let facts get in the way of some good corporation bashing.
http://www.epa.gov/osweroe1/docs/oil...4/etkin_04.pdf

tl;dr

Any spill is more obvious because of the media
number of oil spills in decreasing
number of barrells of oil extracted is increasing
number of spills per million units of production is decreasing

[gammaguy]

Is'nt it amazing how these greenie teleban bastards all drive to these protest sites in their clapped out old bombs that blow smoke everywhere and drink fuel like there's no tomorrow and have the cheek to protest about issues that generally contribute to the NZ economy. The same economy that funds their dole payments. Hypocracy at its best.

It takes more energy to make.a new car than it does to keep an old one on the road for around 50 years

The only reason they keep making new ones is the planned obsolescence built in to every one of them,we are all consumers and suckers and they are laughing at us

If you all cared about the environment you'd be driving an old but well maintained car like I do,riding old but well maintained fuel guzzling headbanging two strokes that used less energy to make than diesels like I do,and you wouldn't wear any underwear either.
After all nothing focuses you on the environment better than a stiff breeze blowing up yer...

Closer to nature and all that


Just saying

[SPman]

Dont let facts get in the way of some good corporation bashing.
http://www.epa.gov/osweroe1/docs/oil...4/etkin_04.pdf

tl;dr

Any spill is more obvious because of the media
number of oil spills in decreasing
number of barrells of oil extracted is increasing
number of spills per million units of production is decreasing

Well, that covers navigable waterways covered by the EPA. Sure enough, minor spills do seem to be decreasing - good for them.
Now, what about the rest of the world?
How about the damage from previous spills, blowouts, mayhem, which, even after 20 yrs, are still having a massive effect on the environment initially fucked ?
Get a badly maintained oil pipeline let go in the Arctic....another drill blow out at sea or land.
Oil companies have a well proven record of paying out absolute minimal compensation, and none if they can get away with it - and they often do,due to bribery and corruption around the world on a massive scale - people in authority on the take is where it's at!

[noobi]

Well, that covers navigable waterways covered by the EPA. Sure enough, minor spills do seem to be decreasing - good for them.
Now, what about the rest of the world?
How about the damage from previous spills, blowouts, mayhem, which, even after 20 yrs, are still having a massive effect on the environment initially fucked ?
Get a badly maintained oil pipeline let go in the Arctic....another drill blow out at sea or land.
Oil companies have a well proven record of paying out absolute minimal compensation, and none if they can get away with it - and they often do,due to bribery and corruption around the world on a massive scale - people in authority on the take is where it's at!

You're not talking about NZ anymore are you.

http://www.environmental-research.co...ics/paper4.pdf

Reduction in U.S oil spillage largely mirrors international trends. Spill numbers and amounts have decreased since 1990, though very large spills can skew oil amounts.

[SPman]

.......though very large spills can skew oil amounts.

Sorry - most of those statistics are meaningless in the situation being protested about. The Rena was a moderate spill by international standards and was a fuck up from beginning to (not yet) end. To think the Government have learnt anything other than cover up and denial from the whole sorry scene is debatable. If there was a comprehensive disaster plan with assets in place, and enforced safety requirements encumbent on the rigs and their operations, there may be a case for letting them in. Blind faith by the PM that "she'll be right" doesn't cut it!

[Ocean1]

Well I think we'll get out there quite comfortably in this.....Attachment 289059

Went for a wee ride on a 53ft cruiser the other day, lovely old boat. There were about a dozen of us, along with the old girl about 7 tons worth, we travelled a tad under 100k and the Gardener 6LB used 18 litres. Not bad for 90 year old technology.

[Ocean1]

Sorry - most of those statistics are meaningless in the situation being protested about.

Wasn't it you that raised 'em?

And I wonder if the relevant authorities might have a better handle on any related risk assessment than us, eh? Or is beating up on JK justified anyway 'cause we don't like him?

[noobi]

Sorry - most of those statistics are meaningless in the situation being protested about.

You're the one you who stated

Bullshit. Events around the world over the last 20+ years belie that fact.

as a response to

Oil companies know what they're doing, and have robust systems in place to minimise risks and prevent spillage or leakage.

So I provided statistics which shows that the systems are in fact becoming much more robust and leakage is being reduced. What parts don't apply here?

[Smifffy]

Wasn't it you that raised 'em?

And I wonder if the relevant authorities might have a better handle on any related risk assessment than us, eh? Or is beating up on JK justified anyway 'cause we don't like him?

And I wonder are these relevant authorities connected in any way to the relevant authorities that had the great handle on risk assessment when it came to revamping the underground mining safety regulations, eh? Having independent underground inspectors was just too costly. Cheaper to destroy the place and kill 27 miners. Bloody good thing the engineering was sound though. Don't worry about any of that though, think of the jobs, and the economy.

[BMWST?]

dont worry the "MARKET" will take care of everything!

[Road kill]

You're the one you who stated as a response to

So I provided statistics which shows that the systems are in fact becoming much more robust and leakage is being reduced. What parts don't apply here?

The parts where oil spills do still happen.
The part where even a small one will cause damage we can't afford.
The part where oil spills do still happen.
And the part where oil spills do still happen.
Which part of oil spills do still happen,,do "you" not get ?

[noobi]

The parts where oil spills do still happen.
The part where even a small one will cause damage we can't afford.
The part where oil spills do still happen.
And the part where oil spills do still happen.
Which part of oil spills do still happen,,do "you" not get ?

What parts do "I" not get?
I was never debating that they don't happen, did you even read what I wrote or did you just have a preconceived idea and want to ignore what I posted?
No where did "I" say anything which hinted the opposite of what "you" said.

I pointed out that oil drilling is becoming 'safer', and less prone to accidents. Which I then backed up with statistics which showed that.

No one wants an oil spill to occur, least of which is the company involved, but then again, no one wants to die in a fiery road accident, yet people still do. Knowing that, I still drive around and shit.

[Ocean1]

And I wonder are these relevant authorities connected in any way to the relevant authorities that had the great handle on risk assessment when it came to revamping the underground mining safety regulations, eh? Having independent underground inspectors was just too costly. Cheaper to destroy the place and kill 27 miners. Bloody good thing the engineering was sound though. Don't worry about any of that though, think of the jobs, and the economy.

I doubt it, but that relationship isn't required to explain poor decision making, is it? Just as, without the slightest research I doubt that the company, (or one or more of it's employees) was complying with whatever safety measures were actually required of them. As a matter of interest was any one of those omissions, or a collection of them the principle cause of the loss?

And yes our govt often gets it wrong in weighing risk against reward, and while they're far better informed than the likes of us lot they're also under far more pressure to produce revenue to support a burgeoning non-productive sector.

Which is why the control mechanisms of a couple of decades ago were better, they removed the temptation to cut corners. When we had authorities constituting professional experts that wrote industry standards with which both public and private enterprise had to conform we all knew where we were. Now we have a system which says "we're not here to advise you of best practice, but if one of your employees gets hurt we'll see you in court". Very helpful.

[Ocean1]

dont worry the "MARKET" will take care of everything!

Actually, you're perfectly correct, if product is priced appropriately it covers the cost of any risk of environmental damage.

Which it usually is, in a FREE market.