Some protest...

[Tazz]

Oh. No, no sarcasm.

But read above a bit and get back to me , eh?

Yeah if we lived in a text book that would be all gravy.

Without looking I'm pretty sure the tourism industry would be more valuable to us short and long term anywho using that logic. I'd imagine it also distributes the wealth a bit better. The oil will always be there (until we stick a straw in it) but once the natural beauty of our country (that we can profit from also) is gone, it is more than likely gone for good.

Aside from all that we don't really have a need to bust our asses to carry all the risk to make a little money while lining the pockets of the Chinese or whatever 'investors' come to the fore at this stage either.

[MisterD]

Without looking I'm pretty sure the tourism industry would be more valuable to us short and long term anywho using that logic. I'd imagine it also distributes the wealth a bit better. The oil will always be there (until we stick a straw in it) but once the natural beauty of our country (that we can profit from also) is gone, it is more than likely gone for good.

Last time I checked, Norway was managing to have a very profitable oil industry and scenic tourism industry at the same time. No reason we shouldn't also...although hopefully we can avoid the eye-wateringly high booze prices.

[Brian d marge]

Are there any ivory tusk carriers left, fk me I thought they went years ago
As for the environmentours is fine we set up no go areas where people cannot go for generations . I think russia did similar

Stephen

Oh and it does trikkle down.

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Tazz]

Last time I checked, Norway was managing to have a very profitable oil industry and scenic tourism industry at the same time. No reason we shouldn't also...although hopefully we can avoid the eye-wateringly high booze prices.

Knowing Norway they would also have the money to make sure there are extensive safety measures and counter measures for worst case in place also?
I don't see that happening here. We don't have the cash.

In a few decades when everyone else is running out and willing to throw wads of cash at it to do it right go nuts I say lol.

[MisterD]

Knowing Norway they would also have the money to make sure there are extensive safety measures and counter measures for worst case in place also?
I don't see that happening here. We don't have the cash.

I'll type this slowly so you can understand more easily.

Question: Where do you think Norway gets all that money from?
Answer: North Sea Oil.

[Tazz]

As for the environmentours is fine we set up no go areas where people cannot go for generations . I think russia did similar

Sounds like a plan. I believe they even threw in a few birth defects, deadly illnesses and some extra fingers and toes around the place also.

For or against though it has to be said I think we could do a lot better than Russian safety standards without even trying

[Tazz]

I'll type this slowly so you can understand more easily.

Question: Where do you think Norway gets all that money from?
Answer: North Sea Oil.

So before they started drilling they had money from oil, to put into oil? Shit that is clever.

[Brian d marge]

Are there any ivory tusk carriers left, fk me I thought they went years ago
As for the environment it is fine we set up no go areas where people cannot go for generations . I think russia did similar

Stephen

Oh and it does trikkle down.

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Smifffy]

Are there any ivory tusk carriers left, fk me I thought they went years ago
As for the environmentours is fine we set up no go areas where people cannot go for generations . I think russia did similar

Stephen

Oh and it does trikkle down.

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

There is still a market among arseholes for tusk ivory, and tusks are still being harvested. According to some theorists, that is ok because there's a profit in it, and the market allows the price to be high enough to mitigate any environmental damage. Yeah right.

Trickle down? Like the money grabbed from the RWC or the Americas cup investments? Hah!

Like how Waihi is the richest town per capita in NZ? Oh wait.

So which parts of NZ do you think would be the best to not allow people to go to for generations?

In fact, as far as 'trickle down' is concerned, why should we accept the crumbs, from trickle down, given what is at risk and what is at stake. We hold the risk and they make the profit, I've never regarded that as particularly smart business practice.

[Ocean1]

There is still a market among arseholes for tusk ivory, and tusks are still being harvested. According to some theorists, that is ok because there's a profit in it, and the market allows the price to be high enough to mitigate any environmental damage. Yeah right.

What sort of market controls do criminals obey, dude? They've never been particularly amenable to the rule of law, you must've noticed, no?

I'll repeat it, if the cost of making an animal extinct is applied to the market then nobody on earth could afford ivory. And that's already the case, so the cause of the continued killing of elephants isn't the failure of some esoteric theoretical market fantasy, it's the criminal activity circumventing a perfectly natural free market structure. And just to clarify the meaning, it's simply a free exchange between buyer and seller. Nothing whatsoever in there about theft or illegal slaughter.

Humans, having already assumed ownership of the "product" (as the only possible stewards of endangered species) have already set the price pretty high, if you're caught you're shot. So until there's some relaxation on the legal protection afforded arseholes and we can shoot anyone actually purchasing ivory then I don't think fucking around with market restrictions is going to help much, do you?

I'm all loaded up and ready, but I don't see the fed's letting us loose any time soon.

[Brian d marge]

What sort of market controls do criminals obey, dude? They've never been particularly amenable to the rule of law, you must've noticed, no?

I'll repeat it, if the cost of making an animal extinct is applied to the market then nobody on earth could afford ivory. And that's already the case, so the cause of the continued killing of elephants isn't the failure of some esoteric theoretical market fantasy, it's the criminal activity circumventing a perfectly natural free market structure. And just to clarify the meaning, it's simply a free exchange between buyer and seller. Nothing whatsoever in there about theft or illegal slaughter.

Humans, having already assumed ownership of the "product" (as the only possible stewards of endangered species) have already set the price pretty high, if you're caught you're shot. So until there's some relaxation on the legal protection afforded arseholes and we can shoot anyone actually purchasing ivory then I don't think fucking around with market restrictions is going to help much, do you?

I'm all loaded up and ready, but I don't see the fed's letting us loose any time soon.

You do not know what you are talking about

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[imdying]

I don't give two shits about the environment in general, but there are some pretty severe risks involved for the ecology of New Zealand. We'll take a swipe at that shit soon enough I expect, but I wish they'd wait till oil is really scarce so we can screw the cunts over price good and proper... we're taking all the risk, we deserve to be remunerated well for it.

[Smifffy]

What sort of market controls do criminals obey, dude? They've never been particularly amenable to the rule of law, you must've noticed, no?

I'll repeat it, if the cost of making an animal extinct is applied to the market then nobody on earth could afford ivory. And that's already the case, so the cause of the continued killing of elephants isn't the failure of some esoteric theoretical market fantasy, it's the criminal activity circumventing a perfectly natural free market structure. And just to clarify the meaning, it's simply a free exchange between buyer and seller. Nothing whatsoever in there about theft or illegal slaughter.

Humans, having already assumed ownership of the "product" (as the only possible stewards of endangered species) have already set the price pretty high, if you're caught you're shot. So until there's some relaxation on the legal protection afforded arseholes and we can shoot anyone actually purchasing ivory then I don't think fucking around with market restrictions is going to help much, do you?

I'm all loaded up and ready, but I don't see the fed's letting us loose any time soon.

Excellent. Now let's afford that same level of regulation and protection to the pristine NZ coastline, and the oil/gas/whatever is not worth extracting, so leave it there, until the technology is sound, and the NZ govt can hold a cleanup bill sized bond, earning interest for the duration of the operation, and until the site is remediated after operations cease, along with royalties, taxes etc.

Sorry I thought you were talking about the free market - governed only by the law of supply and demand, but since you've now opened the scope for regulation, we need to regulate the fuck out of it, not the slap happy, lackadaisical, she'll be right attitude we've taken for the last couple of generations, and of which John Key appears to be the zenith (or nadir?).

[Ocean1]

Excellent. Now let's afford that same level of regulation and protection to the pristine NZ coastline, and the oil/gas/whatever is not worth extracting, so leave it there, until the technology is sound, and the NZ govt can hold a cleanup bill sized bond, earning interest for the duration of the operation, and until the site is remediated after operations cease, along with royalties, taxes etc.

Fine. But before you put that to any vote let's see you quantify the consequences of doubling the price of oil. Is the risk of environmental damage still not worth it?

Double it again. If you spent most of that extra cost on risk mitigation measures then you've likely halved the actual risk to the environment. You've also comprehensively fucked the quality of life of everyone here, and you've destroyed the livelihood of many, including a lot of those in the third world who just barely get by with fuel at current prices.

Which was my point from the start, so far there's been not a murmur about the substantial costs on the other side of the equation, it appears nobody here has any idea what they are let alone any practical idea how to go create alternatives.

I suppose we could solar power the world's cargo ship fleet...

[Ocean1]

You do not know what you are talking about

Coming from a well regarded expert in the field I'll take that as a compliment.