Roastbusters

[blue rider]

good read
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times...ook-like%22%7D

How much worse must all this be, then, for the victims? That thought shocked me out of my apathy, although I didn't see what adding my voice to the chorus of outrage would achieve. Until now. Because it's not merely what these young men have been doing with, and to, vulnerable young women that disgusts and upsets me. It's also the reaction of some men (and it is almost always men) to the story.

By far the worst reactions bubbled up from the usual suspects; anonymous commenters from the cesspits of the internet. The comments were always along the same lines. The girls were "asking for it." They shouldn't have been going out late at night. They'd been inspired by internet porn. They were drunk, so it was their fault. They were sluts.

This, sadly, can be expected. That doesn't make it any less wrong, but it's what you get from twisted minds hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. What I didn't expect was to hear voices in the mainstream news media taking a horrifically similar line. People who should absolutely know better.

The worst I heard was an interview conducted by Radio Live broadcasters Willie Jackson and John Tamihere of, apparently, a female friend of one of the victims. Their line of questioning, while not necessarily exempting the perpetrators from their disgust, blamed the victims from the start.

Were the girls willing drinkers, they asked. Why had they been out late at night? Didn't they know the boys' reputations? Most tellingly, they suggested the boys could not be rapists if "some of the girls had consented." Most disgustingly, they asked their caller what age she had lost her virginity.

How can people react this way to allegations of rape?

[oldrider]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.

Read the "TRUTH" newspaper reports from back in the mid 1950's, the offenders were referred to as "Juvenile delinquents" in those days!

Same sort of thing apart from the technology ... it was more about the media frenzy surrounding the issue than the offending!

The girls involved were keeping quiet until the media forced one out into the open and then the media descended upon her! (poor girl)

Consequently the young motorcyclists involved became branded as "Milk bar Cowboys"!

These things have been going on since the beginning of time and will still be going on at the end, only the "degree of indignation and uproar" will vary!

[Delerium]

Best GIF ever. where can I get it.

[rustyrobot]

Best GIF ever. where can I get it.

1) Right click.
2) Save image as....

[imdying]

Interesting, the Police Act itself defines why such a prosecution would fail, which they know, so that reveals it as nothing more being a bully.

49Use of term Police or New Zealand Police in operating name
(1)A person commits an offence who, without reasonable excuse, carries on an activity under an operating name that includes the word “Police” or the words “New Zealand Police”, in a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police.
(2)A person who commits an offence against this section is liable on conviction,—
(a)in the case of an individual, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding $5,000:
(b)in the case of a body corporate, to a fine not exceeding $20,000.

Perhaps a countersuit using the new cyber bullying laws would be appropriate (and more likely to be won).

[pzkpfw]

How do you know any underage sex took place? because a social media page put up by these knobends says so? because it's been widely reported by the media?

And complaints by (currently) four girls. And a friend of theirs making statements (on radio, not in court) that appear to show the events occured. And ...

(The police have gone from "no one complained" to "complaints were made but not enough evidence". What next?)



I agree with "innocent until proven guilty".
I agree with the need to avoid hysteria.
I agree with the need for justice, rather than lynch mobs.


But - to have the information we have available and not think something occured, that needs to be dealt with, is just head in the sand behaviour (and yes I direct that squarely at you).

That's exactly the kind of attitude that leads to an unwillingness to report such events, which just aids in further criminal activity.

Rape (or whatever you want to call it) of drunk girls by predatory boys has been going on for a long time, and in many countries. But do you really think that's not something that needs to be fixed in our societies?

[Oscar]

And complaints by (currently) four girls. And a friend of theirs making statements (on radio, not in court) that appear to show the events occured. And ...

(The police have gone from "no one complained" to "complaints were made but not enough evidence". What next?)



I agree with "innocent until proven guilty".
I agree with the need to avoid hysteria.
I agree with the need for justice, rather than lynch mobs.


But - to have the information we have available and not think something occured, that needs to be dealt with, is just head in the sand behaviour (and yes I direct that squarely at you).

That's exactly the kind of attitude that leads to an unwillingness to report such events, which just aids in further criminal activity.

Rape (or whatever you want to call it) of drunk girls by predatory boys has been going on for a long time, and in many countries. But do you really think that's not something that needs to be fixed in our societies?

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

[Akzle]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

fuck.



You just said something sensible.




...did you forget your meds this morning?






the boys could elect to take themselves to court, have a not-guilty verdict returned (or not) and gtf on with it...

[Zedder]

good read
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times...ook-like%22%7D

That sort of talk is par for the course for Jackson and Tamihere, a couple of nasty pieces of work indeed.

I see advertisers are starting to pull out of RadioLive which shows what they think of the those two and their crap as well.

[Oscar]

fuck.



You just said something sensible.




...did you forget your meds this morning?






the boys could elect to take themselves to court, have a not-guilty verdict returned (or not) and gtf on with it...

Curry for Lunch with three Kingfishers and a coupla rants.

They can't take themselves to court as there are currently no charges to answer.
They could confess to the cops, but judging by the cops form lately, they'll probably end up as Chief Inspectors.

As horrible as it seems, there doesn't seem to be a case to answer at the moment, and should the police ever pull finger and finally put a case together, the lad's brief will scream “ prejudice!” “ trial by media!” and “..your word against his..” and probably get them off.

[oldrider]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

True!

When you consider all the changes in acceptability and attitudes and sex education in schools etc, it would appear that we have simply exchanged one set of problems for another in "some cases"!

Then again when you consider the percentages the higher majority of kids/people have handled things well and moved on into the future!

Oscar has read the situation well just the failures of this case need to be addressed and the rest of society can move on and feel well pleased.

Consider this case as general housekeeping ... if we fail to tidy it up properly ... we do so at our collective peril!

[blue rider]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four girls and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

i have fixed this for you. (the women were 13 - 15 at the age when the offending occured, that makes them girls)



I have no issues with what you said, however if people believe they did what they said they did its probably because of that. Cause really, the men that I know would not want to be known as rapists that get under aged girls drunk so that they can have "intercourse" with them, or "Groupsex".



letter of apology to the girls one of the boys might or might not have raped

sorry if I offended you (i might have screwed you up for ever, but I have gone past that episode in my life and am a much betterer person now

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11151135

A Facebook post, apparently from an unnamed founder of Roast Busters said he had made some "major mistakes" and had tried to make "dramatic changes" to his life.

"I have not been happy with who I have become and if I suffer any consequences from my past actions then I guess I deserve it but I just want people to know I am a good person at heart and I have matured and have taken this as a massive learning experience."

He also apologised to the young girls who had featured on the Facebook page.

"All the girls that have been effected by this whole ridiculousness I apologize and wish the best for you."

Fact is the Police fucked this up badly, very badly. Most rapes - regardless of the age and gender of the person raped will never ever go before police because they are just not the right people to handle it. Most people raped are ashamend, wondering what they have done wrong, will try to rationalise what happened (if i would have done that etc etc etc) and never ever go to police to lay a complaint. What this means for society, while some might only rape once in their lifetime (drunk sex, or sex with the not so willing partner) others go on to be prolific rapists. And they get away with it. And that is the sad truth about rape. It happens to all genders, across all ages and it happens predominately to women. Cause Rapists get away with it.

If the onus is on the Victim to prevent rape, if the onus is on the victim to be a virgin to be allowed to claim rape, if the onus is on the Victim to dress like a nun or a observing muslima to be able to say i did not dress provocative and i was raped, the rapists laugh all they way to the next victims.

Hands up, who would want these 'boys' living in their neighbourhood?

[mashman]

Curry for Lunch with three Kingfishers and a coupla rants.

They can't take themselves to court as there are currently no charges to answer.
They could confess to the cops, but judging by the cops form lately, they'll probably end up as Chief Inspectors.

As horrible as it seems, there doesn't seem to be a case to answer at the moment, and should the police ever pull finger and finally put a case together, the lad's brief will scream “ prejudice!” “ trial by media!” and “..your word against his..” and probably get them off.

Jimmi Saville, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis etc... I guess you have to be famous before a case can be brought against you, or at least it looks as though they'll only take a case against someone that they can throw in jail, or at least they'll only take a case where the complainants are adults. If there are complaints, then there is a case.

[Thaeos]

Or maybe there isn't

If he wants to sling shit at someone he shouldn't be to upset if they sling some back

Except that it isn't just someone slinging shit back, it's the police threatening fines and imprisonment because they can't handle having the piss taken out of them.

[Oscar]

Jimmi Saville, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis etc... I guess you have to be famous before a case can be brought against you, or at least it looks as though they'll only take a case against someone that they can throw in jail, or at least they'll only take a case where the complainants are adults. If there are complaints, then there is a case.

I'm unsurprised that you’ve come up with some silly conspiracy theory, but evidence is evidence, and unfortunately at the moment in this case “they” don't have any. It is sadly typical of cases involving children that parents will try to stop a complaint, whereas the cases you mentioned the witnesses were all adults who had been molested as children.