F1 and F2 or Superbike and Supersport for Nationals

[jellywrestler]

Probably the same reason as why a good rider can get invited to the Macau Gp and Cemetery Circuit but cant get a bike/sponsorship.

you're talking of one particular rider and getting anyone to build/supply a bike for one meeting is tough in this day and age, i'm talking the whole world of road racers who could put NZ on their to do list, they don't have to be winners and the Cemetery circuit certainally a lot less daunting than most UK road Circuits to tick off your bucket list on

[wharfy]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

Haha that's 'cuase you see it in your rear view mirror !

[Billy]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

[codgyoleracer]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

Interesting suggestion Billy, - and the questions to ask yourself from my business head position are:

1) Why would a key sponsor/supporter want to establish their own series ?
2) Why has a key sponsor/supporter made a strategic move to reduce their inputs into "the national series" ?
3) Why would a national series want to align with a lesser series ?


Maybe the answers are
(1) For superior market branding, market control and format control
(2) It would be safe to assume that there is only so much money to spread around, - If it were mine i would be best to spend it where its most effective
(3) There is no reason to align, - unless the national series has lost some relevance or it has reduced to a level where it has such little media impact that it requires the need to take on a private partner(s) for additional exposure.



MNZ own the rights to the premier series currently (just), - Get some ducks in line and choose a marketing and class strategy that other series competitors simply cannnot compete with. (MNZ do write the rules you know,,,,,,,,, ) ....... (well currently at least)

[jellywrestler]

Yea,



It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series

maybe they thought if they pull from the nats it'll still survive if they pull from the tri series it'll disappear???

[miper]

Yea,

Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

Seems logical to me. All of the people entering these events then have a legal bike to do the nats as well. Surely the fast guys on the latest proddy based thingies will still have the speed and be at the pointy end. Wouldn't it then not preclude anyone based on bike preference alone. I personally would love to see some 250 gp or equally different machines back out there in the appropriate Formula class (If that's what the classes are called) rather than all the proddy things that look and sound the same.

As you were.....

[Billy]

Interesting suggestion Billy, - and the questions to ask yourself from my business head position are:

1) Why would a key sponsor/supporter want to establish their own series ?
2) Why has a key sponsor/supporter made a strategic move to reduce their inputs into "the national series" ?
3) Why would a national series want to align with a lesser series ?


Maybe the answers are
(1) For superior market branding, market control and format control
(2) It would be safe to assume that there is only so much money to spread around, - If it were mine i would be best to spend it where its most effective
(3) There is no reason to align, - unless the national series has lost some relevance or it has reduced to a level where it has such little media impact that it requires the need to take on a private partner(s) for additional exposure.



MNZ own the rights to the premier series currently (just), - Get some ducks in line and choose a marketing and class strategy that other series competitors simply cannnot compete with. (MNZ do write the rules you know,,,,,,,,, ) ....... (well currently at least)

maybe they thought if they pull from the nats it'll still survive if they pull from the tri series it'll disappear???

I'm not concerned at any of the above,

Just asking the question to see what others think,It makes perfect sense for them to use their money locally and have control of the series,There are other areas where MNZ could be getting support as youve pointed out Glen,As I'm sure your aware,Competition is good for all if the energy it produces is positive,If the general consensus is we stick with the status quo,Then so be it

[Robert Taylor]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

7 rounds? Are you completely and utterly nuts?

[jellywrestler]

7 rounds? Are you completely and utterly nuts?

grab ya medication, it's only a discussion Robert

[Billy]

grab ya medication, it's only a discussion Robert

BINGO!!!!!

Also if the Suzuki series and NZSBK were combined it wouldn't be anymore racing than we've got right now,So Roberts just not understanding the idea.

[Drew]

I have no issue with the nats being a longer series. But I don't think the Wanganui points should count towards the championship.

It is not a circuit to promote as stiff competition as presents at track rounds in my opinion.

[Billy]

I have no issue with the nats being a longer series. But I don't think the Wanganui points should count towards the championship.

It is not a circuit to promote as stiff competition as presents at track rounds in my opinion.

It wouldn't be,We identified that back in 89

[CHOPPA]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

Ah I see... So it is constructive!

For some reason competitors seem to be scared to race the Nationals but a lot more are happy to ride the tri series even though the same guys are riding at the front at the same speed. The difference is that there are far more riders to fill the gaps.

F1 Rules work fine for the Suzuki series because the guys up front need to use the same bike for the NZSBK class so this keeps the spec in check. Going full F1 in the nationals could potentially cause problems because someone is going to turn up on a Moto GP bike.

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

Having 2 classes within the Superbike and 600 class to me is the way forward. The NZSBK class should remain the same but there should be an Expert class involved. So sorta like a "B grade" championship within the class. Let the B grade riders run F1 rules but stick to homolgated bikes and give them restrictions on tyres or even a control tyre.

Provided everyone meets the 115% lap times.

This would give the club superbike riders something to race for. They dont want to race against Craig Shirriffs, from their point of view he is a better rider on a better bike on new tyres every session. Its a no win situation (in their mind) So if they have no chance why bother? But if they had the potential to be the NZSBK Expert Champion, that is a huge boost and something they can sell to sponsors etc.

The top 3 from the Expert class each year are automatically put up to the A grade class to stop burglers and it should keep the way clear for people coming through the ranks. Its also an opportunity for riders stepping up from the 600s

[Robert Taylor]

BINGO!!!!!

Also if the Suzuki series and NZSBK were combined it wouldn't be anymore racing than we've got right now,So Roberts just not understanding the idea.

No I understand completely and how it changes the dynamic. I just dont have the stomach to type a novel ( War and Peace ) at this time to explain why we actually have too much racing

[Billy]

Ah I see... So it is constructive!

For some reason competitors seem to be scared to race the Nationals but a lot more are happy to ride the tri series even though the same guys are riding at the front at the same speed. The difference is that there are far more riders to fill the gaps.

F1 Rules work fine for the Suzuki series because the guys up front need to use the same bike for the NZSBK class so this keeps the spec in check. Going full F1 in the nationals could potentially cause problems because someone is going to turn up on a Moto GP bike.

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

Having 2 classes within the Superbike and 600 class to me is the way forward. The NZSBK class should remain the same but there should be an Expert class involved. So sorta like a "B grade" championship within the class. Let the B grade riders run F1 rules but stick to homolgated bikes and give them restrictions on tyres or even a control tyre.

Provided everyone meets the 115% lap times.

This would give the club superbike riders something to race for. They dont want to race against Craig Shirriffs, from their point of view he is a better rider on a better bike on new tyres every session. Its a no win situation (in their mind) So if they have no chance why bother? But if they had the potential to be the NZSBK Expert Champion, that is a huge boost and something they can sell to sponsors etc.

The top 3 from the Expert class each year are automatically put up to the A grade class to stop burglers and it should keep the way clear for people coming through the ranks. Its also an opportunity for riders stepping up from the 600s

Yip,

Some good ideas in there that are worth looking further into,There already is a South Island championship for 2014,It will be called the South Island Gold cup,It will be run over 3 rounds including round's 1 and 2 of NZSBK,With the 3rd round at Teretonga the week following the Levels round.But it is a fully recognised championship,Had hoped to do the same in the North,But AMCC had already moved forward with their date and couldn't accomodate it,2015 Maybe.

Craig who?????Oh... you mean 10 minute Shirriffs????