The "money where my mouth is" sidecar design/build thread

**Moooools** · 13th November 2013, 19:04

A bit of a slow day sorry but it is moving along. Excuse some of the dodgy CAD work. Some things I just can't be arsed making pretty.
I have been working hard on the front end still. The upright is in a mark one state and and ready to be mechanised to make sure it works (at least on the screen).

I have spent a lot of time messing around with the setup of the assembly so that any time I want to change a parameter, such as changing the length of the suspension links, I can do so and everything will fall into place (mostly). It saves heaps of time in the long run so is well worth the initial time investment. A picture of the multitude of planes and axis that govern the front end geometry is included for interest.

Getting the pull rod (the arm at the front on the biggest angle) to work as it should also took up some time. I was originally going to take it to the center but it would have caused big issues under anything more than a slight steering angle. So it has bee relocate to the front where it will be affected much less by steering angles.

The upright is in a pretty early stage still. The aim is to have something that can easily be pumped out on a mill in one set up. Hopefully CNCd but will probably end up simplifying it some more and doing it myself on a manual mill. The big forces there are coming from the bearing blocks (standard kart item) so the X shape should feed those out to the control arms nicely. The brake is placed on the rear as it allows the moment generated by it to be taken by the weight force of the rig first, before any load is put on the control arms. The caliper mounts are a bit dicky but they will work. I may end up getting a narrower caliper if this setup doesn't work, as this big thing pushes that wheel way out. Camber adjustment is achieved by moving the bearing blocks up and down on the inside and outside of the upright. The Kart bearing blocks have allowances for a huge amount of misalignment.

The steering control arm is the one you can see going directly rearwards. It will just be connected to a big arm welded to a set of handlebars.

I have include a very very rough monocoque geometry. just to paint a picture. It is currently ugly as sin and poorly thought out but fixing that is another day's job. In fact it will just about be the last thing I do.

More to come tomorrow. Will start work on either the mechanism model of the front end or the rear wheel setup, whichever I feel like doing the most.

**Moooools** · 13th November 2013, 19:10

Originally Posted by Henk

Chris is keen on nobody running wets to keep things even and limit the arms race. We've all stood by it to now but the rules don't say anything about them, sliding around on slicks in the wet is that much fun I'd be keen to keep things the way they are.

Fair enough I guess. I would happy to stick to that until it got a bit more serious. That seems like a short/medium term measure that would be hard to enforce at a national(GP) level so I think it is still useful to have the provision there still for the day that they are allowed/needed.

**Henk** · 13th November 2013, 19:47

Originally Posted by Moooools

Fair enough I guess. I would happy to stick to that until it got a bit more serious. That seems like a short/medium term measure that would be hard to enforce at a national(GP) level so I think it is still useful to have the provision there still for the day that they are allowed/needed.

At the moment I think the chances of getting six entries for a GP is unfortunately a pipe dream.
I've considered inning a wet in the dry on ours before now to see if it works. I think Chris said atone stage he had no objection to wets but if you went that way it was wet or dry.
I'll also admit that it's easy to stick with this sort of agreement while it won't make a difference, as soon as things get serious I'm sure we will be looking for any advantage we can find.

**Bert** · 13th November 2013, 20:38

Originally Posted by Henk

At the moment I think the chances of getting six entries for a GP is unfortunately a pipe dream.
I've considered inning a wet in the dry on ours before now to see if it works. I think Chris said atone stage he had no objection to wets but if you went that way it was wet or dry.
I'll also admit that it's easy to stick with this sort of agreement while it won't make a difference, as soon as things get serious I'm sure we will be looking for any advantage we can find.

Given the Auckland numbers plus the griff chair down here; gives +6 (they only have to be starters/entered).
GP might be more of a wet dream... Enjoyable at the time but a mess to clean up afterwards.

MOooools, looking great.

**mr bucketracer** · 13th November 2013, 20:56

Originally Posted by Bert

Given the Auckland numbers plus the griff chair down here; gives +6 (they only have to be starters/entered).
GP might be more of a wet dream... Enjoyable at the time but a mess to clean up afterwards.

MOooools, looking great.

and i need to get this sidecar out and sorted

**Gazzza** · 13th November 2013, 21:16

Hey Henk, no plans for the endurance, but gearing up for Tokoroa.
I favour the no wets, only because it levels the whole field nicely but wouldn't be adverse to any one running what they want on the day, I must admit I carry a wet rear in the boot just in case...
To be honest at the moment in the spirit of getting bums on the track us chair guys aren't subject to any real scrutineering and any home rules are just to keep it fun.

**racer40** · 14th November 2013, 18:49

Yeah, Henk & Gazza are right, I know its not in the rules, I am for just keeping it fun & as cheap as poss, but then if it gets to GP level then yes. and I dont see why we cant get the numbers for a GP, but it will have to be the right date to get everyone there, ie not when other bike racing is on.

**seymour14** · 14th November 2013, 19:14

Just a little history lesson.

In the 1999 GP at Taupo, dry day and very close racing to the end...

2000 GP was as wet as buggery, we went out on drys and crashed at every corner, looked a certainty we would loose our title, from memory we borrowed some wets just minutes from the big race, and ended up winning, and winning well. Think we even lapped second place at least once, some people we lapped about 10 times.

Wets have their place I'm afraid to say, also a damned lot safer in the right (or wrong) conditions. For me, I just keep fingers crossed for dry weather, and the best fun you can have on three wheels...

**Pumba** · 14th November 2013, 19:15

Treaded sticky road tires for the win

**seymour14** · 14th November 2013, 19:27

This reminds of title attempt 3, in 2001 I believe, at Ohakune.

Not quite enough bikes, so a gentleman's agreement to put the title up for grabs, crazy old day, and maybe we needed some tread on our bike that had otherwise been great on slicks normally.

We did some sighter laps, then ripped into a quick lap. Well, we hit the first corner and the rig let go and slid sideways across the road at full speed into the haybales, Scotty as rider was thrown off, but had his foot caught in the bike, I held on for grim death as we hit the bales, but the bike then took off back across the road dragging poor Scotty behind, foot still caught.

I tried to reach the steering from the swingers bay, but the bike hit the opposite side gutter and I dismounted and flew headfirst into a tree, bloody trees don't get out of the way, when I came to I saw Scott underneath the rig further up the sidewalk. He had slid perfectly between a lamp post and a mailbox without collecting either!!

Needless to say, that was the end of our Title holding days...We went to the pub and had a few quiet ones.

**mr bucketracer** · 14th November 2013, 20:07

Originally Posted by seymour14

This reminds of title attempt 3, in 2001 I believe, at Ohakune.

Not quite enough bikes, so a gentleman's agreement to put the title up for grabs, crazy old day, and maybe we needed some tread on our bike that had otherwise been great on slicks normally.

We did some sighter laps, then ripped into a quick lap. Well, we hit the first corner and the rig let go and slid sideways across the road at full speed into the haybales, Scotty as rider was thrown off, but had his foot caught in the bike, I held on for grim death as we hit the bales, but the bike then took off back across the road dragging poor Scotty behind, foot still caught.

I tried to reach the steering from the swingers bay, but the bike hit the opposite side gutter and I dismounted and flew headfirst into a tree, bloody trees don't get out of the way, when I came to I saw Scott underneath the rig further up the sidewalk. He had slid perfectly between a lamp post and a mailbox without collecting either!!

Needless to say, that was the end of our Title holding days...We went to the pub and had a few quiet ones.

and the sidecar sat in the hay shed untill last year.. maybe it should of stayed there

**seymour14** · 14th November 2013, 20:31

Originally Posted by mr bucketracer

and the sidecar sat in the hay shed untill last year.. maybe it should of stayed there

You know how much fun they were.

More memories to keep it real----Palmerston North Esplanade (when we could ride there), 1999, couple of laps in, bro decides he can't make a corner so bales to the right, unfortuneately the swinger (me), is committed to the left where we should have gone.

I disappear into the gutter and over into the bushes, while he does a fast gas up and spurts up the road. Figuring out I was no longer there a few metres along.

Also...Manfeild back track. Upon finishing a race, bro races up to the spectators, and hammers on the brakes at the last moment.

I meanwhile face plant over the front and carry on pass the crowd...

Ahhhh, the good old days, bring them on again I say......

**Sketchy_Racer** · 15th November 2013, 18:21

Looks like an awesome project Mooools, I'd love to get involved in something like this one day.

If you do need anything CNC'd just let me know, I'll be more than happy to help out on this project.

Cheers,

-Sketchy

**racer40** · 15th November 2013, 20:03

Hey Seymour 17, some of your crashes sound like some of mine, I raced at the Whakatane street race 3 times & went upside down 4 times, also remember street/ carpark races at Feilding, Manakau, TePuke & of course where buckets first started Ohakea, I think my first Ohakea was in 1985 & i still race tease little things now