Drug testing in the IT industry

[tigertim20]

In the sense that the booze buses conduct random breath testing. It seems pretty random to me to test someone when there is no reason to suspect them of taking drugs.


I'm obviously not communicating well tonight. This was really my point. Yes, where there is a suspicion of intoxication a test could be justified.



Allright, "history" was too strong a word. "Found intoxicated previously" would've been more accurate. I've heard of cases were a worker turns up drunk for work and are sent home to sober up. They didn't lose their job for the first offence.



Testing anyone when there is no reason to suspect drug use is random. I agree that tsting every prospective employee isn't random but it's still a bad way to start a working relationship.


Now we're on the same page.


My objection stems from the principle of presumption of innocence. A culture of fear in a workplace is never a good thing.

ha, I think we might have been largely on the same page after all! as you were

[SMOKEU]

mmm where is your info for caffeine killing more then cannabis?? tobacco yeah should be banned as far as Im concerned but then Im a non smoker from way back..

The main difference is those two are not illegal substances yet... so thats not hypercritical

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ca...LOvC8gf094CYBw

As the man sed: They ain't illegal.

I'm going to sound a bit like Akzle here, but the NZ government telling me that I can't use certain plants put here by God is unlawful, and as such I do not recognize their jurisdiction in that matter assuming the following facts are true:
1. I'm not damaging the environment or harvesting endangered plants.
2. I'm not using poisonous plants to cause harm to another person or animal.

[3umph]

Ffs you can die from water overdose as well in actual fact
Most things are dangerous if you overdose on them

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[SMOKEU]

Ffs you can die from water overdose as well in actual fact
Most things are dangerous if you overdose on them

Exactly, hence the need to differentiate between use and abuse.

[Bassmatt]

Alcohol at work would be similar to drug testing I think you would find...

Caffeine and tobacco are not illegal substances.... yet
.

The main difference is those two are not illegal substances yet... so thats not hypercritical

As the man sed: They ain't illegal.

So is the testing about H&S or ensuring employees aren't breaking the law?
Maybe they should also be allowed to go through your annual accounts and make sure theres nothing dodgy going on, or how about when you turn up at work with a new car or pair of shoes, for example, you must provide reciepts so work knows you havent stolen them.
If it's truly about H&S I'd suggest this http://www.flightdutytimes.eu/?page_id=191 is a much wider problem than drugs.

[swbarnett]

Ffs you can die from water overdose as well in actual fact

Dihydrogen monoxide:

- is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
- contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
- may cause severe burns.
- is fatal if inhaled.
- contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
- accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
- may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
- has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

- as an industrial solvent and coolant.
- in nuclear power plants.
- in the production of Styrofoam.
- as a fire retardant.
- in many forms of cruel animal research.
- in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
- as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

[Bassmatt]

Ffs you can die from water overdose as well in actual fact
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Better ban it and start testing for it then cos not enough water could also be dangerous

" a new study shows that even mild dehydration can influence mood, energy levels and the ability to think clearly. "
http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/02...ion/35037.html

[SMOKEU]

At one of my previous jobs, I was often forced to work late at night, and then start early the next morning. I was so tired, that mistakes were frequently made, and after repeatedly notifying management of this issue, my requests for different shifts were repeatedly denied. I can say with absolute certainty that a good smoke up at night with a proper sleep leaves me far less impaired the next day than not using any subtances combined with a lack of sleep. So are we going to get tested for sleep deprivation any time soon? Obviously not since it's in the "too hard" basket.

[Bassmatt]

Actually it seems there is a reasonable basis for including caffiene in the drug testing regime, along with rationing it in the workplace...
The Mayo Clinic says :
Although moderate caffeine intake isn't likely to cause harm, too much can lead to some unpleasant effects. Heavy daily caffeine use — more than 500 to 600 mg a day — may cause:

Insomnia
Nervousness
Restlessness
Irritability
Stomach upset
Fast heartbeat
Muscle tremors
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/NU00600

So we get a tired, nervous, pissed off IT guy with a stomach upset and muscle tremors " working on a server/firewall/system (which can be done remotely from the office) and it's late at night, the first stupid mistake (no matter how small) is the last. "
But he passes the drug testing so thats ok then. Oh and it's not illegal

[SMOKEU]

Actually it seems there is a reasonable basis for including caffiene in the drug testing regime, along with rationing it in the workplace...
The Mayo Clinic says :
Although moderate caffeine intake isn't likely to cause harm, too much can lead to some unpleasant effects. Heavy daily caffeine use — more than 500 to 600 mg a day — may cause:

Insomnia
Nervousness
Restlessness
Irritability
Stomach upset
Fast heartbeat
Muscle tremors
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/caffeine/NU00600

So we get a tired, nervous, pissed off IT guy with a stomach upset and muscle tremors " working on a server/firewall/system (which can be done remotely from the office) and it's late at night, the first stupid mistake (no matter how small) is the last. "
But he passes the drug testing so thats ok then. Oh and it's not illegal

Don't forget the hangover from the alcohol consumption from the night before, and the synthetic cannabis smoked before work, and you have the perfect storm. Oh, and the P smoking on Friday after work (it's only detectable for a couple of days after consumption).

[Bassmatt]

Don't forget the hangover from the alcohol consumption from the night before, and the synthetic cannabis smoked before work, and you have the perfect storm. Oh, and the P smoking on Friday after work (it's only detectable for a couple of days after consumption).

Yeah thats my point, Smoke. There is shitloads of things that can affect your safety and performance in the workplace, many of which can be tested for, but "they" have decided to choose an easy target and ignore everything else, eg myself on Monday running at about 80% due to a very heavy alcohol session on the Saturday. I would have passed the drug test tho.
Also the cannabis metabolite issue makes a mockery of the whole thing. I'd be happy if it was based on some sort of impairment test first with a follow up drug/stress/general health test afterwards.

[imdying]

I thought I'd ask in this sub forum, since many of you work in this industry. So, if it's a fairly regular entry level office type IT job that doesn't involve working around heavy machinery or driving, is it common for employers to do random drug testing, or to request a drug test pre-employment? Is it a topic that employers are likely to bring up, even with no reason to believe that someone uses illegal substances?

Oh, hell no.

Wouldn't expect so. But like several businesses in the recession, the cheapest way to downsize is to drug test staff. No long drawn out firings, no redundancy payouts.

Nah, all sorts of unfair/improper dismissal cases come from things like that. Then you have to give them a fat check and rehire them.

IT could give two shits about things like that. Programmers are basically given a free reign to do what it takes to get the job done, and whilst you'll be sacked for getting high at work, what you do in your own time is your own business... generally the hours you keep are your own business too.

Being a programmer is the closest you'll ever come to a paid holiday... all the sugar you can consume, good equipment (chairs/desks/computers etc), unlimited internet, flexi-time, $50-100 an hour, at least a months holidays, paid training time... recommended.

[Bassmatt]

all the sugar you can consume, .

Sugar is goin on the list, you better get some help for that.

"Too Much Sugar Makes You Stupid!

The rats fed fructose syrup showed significant impairment in their cognitive abilities—they struggled to remember their way out of the maze. They were slower, and their brains showed a decline in synaptic activity. Their brain cells had trouble signaling each other, disrupting the rats' ability to think clearly and recall the route they'd learned six weeks earlier. " http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...in-health.aspx

Sounds like an accident waiting to happen!

[imdying]

Can't make them too stupid... everything you use everyday on an electronic device was made by a sugar and caffeine fueled programmer

[tigertim20]

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=ca...LOvC8gf094CYBw



I'm going to sound a bit like Akzle here, but the NZ government telling me that I can't use certain plants put here by God is unlawful, and as such I do not recognize their jurisdiction in that matter assuming the following facts are true:
1. I'm not damaging the environment or harvesting endangered plants.
2. I'm not using poisonous plants to cause harm to another person or animal.

this is going off topic here a little, but fuck it, Ill bite.
before you make the point about about things being put here by an imaginary sky pixie ('god') and being natural, go do a quick google on the amount of naturally occurring poisons and toxins, there are a shitload out there, of which many are restricted by law in terms of use / production etc.

yes yes yes, you're now going to make a point about how its YOUR right to choose, and Ill point out how badly peoples health could be affected if information and restrictios werent shared / used.
Youll then say thats fine, but argue about where the line should be drawn, and the conversation will go in circles from there . . .

At one of my previous jobs, I was often forced to work late at night, and then start early the next morning. I was so tired, that mistakes were frequently made, and after repeatedly notifying management of this issue, my requests for different shifts were repeatedly denied. I can say with absolute certainty that a good smoke up at night with a proper sleep leaves me far less impaired the next day than not using any subtances combined with a lack of sleep. So are we going to get tested for sleep deprivation any time soon? Obviously not since it's in the "too hard" basket.

Sleep deprivation is already targeted as a danger in many lines of work. Truck drivers have to use and fill out log books, and stick to very strict rules about driving times, there are rules on how many hours you can work in a row (differs for general haulage vs taxis) without having a break. there are rules about how long that break has to be to be classed as an actual ''break". there are rules about haw many maximum hours can be worked in a 24 hour period. there are rules about how many minimum hours must be observed as rest between shifts. there are rules about how many hours can be worked maximum in a given period (day and week). failure to observe these rules, and correctly document them results in substantial fines, and often, instant loss of licence which can last a fair while depending on the severity. Te log books themselves are the 'test' or 'proof', and yes, like any test it can be faked etc, but the point is, that sleep deprivation IS targeted, and ''tested'