Pike River

[Paul in NZ]

[QUOTE=Zedder;1130641547]

However, that was a while ago, they're being compensated, offered dedicated government support and a future. It's probably time to move on.

Yup - but you might feel differently if it was your great grandad....

[mashman]

However, that was a while ago, they're being compensated, offered dedicated government support and a future. It's probably time to move on.

Assimilate you mean? You've been conquered? You're a part of our society and democracy rulez here? You're either one of us or one of them? Your culture must die because you're too expensive to keep? I've a feeling Maori could learn us a thing or two about our culture and what they think?

[Zedder]

[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130641563]

Yup - but you might feel differently if it was your great grandad....

You mean the one that was killed at the Battle of Gate Pa?

[Zedder]

Assimilate you mean? You've been conquered? You're a part of our society and democracy rulez here? You're either one of us or one of them? Your culture must die because you're too expensive to keep? I've a feeling Maori could learn us a thing or two about our culture and what they think?

Is this assimilation?:http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/about/mpa/

[Howie]

And I say again with 20/20 hindsight you are always right

sadly it is not all about hindsight but learning lessons from other industries and taking them on Board. if you read the full Pike river inquiry report one of the conclusions was


from the conclusions to part 2 chapter 20 avaliable as a pdf here
http://pikeriver.royalcommission.govt.nz/vwluResources/Final-Report-Vol2-Ch20/$file/Vol2-Chapter20-only.pdf

"As its inquiry proceeded the commission noted the extent to which the themes identified by inquiries into
previous tragedies were repeated at Pike River. History demonstrates that lessons learnt from past tragedies do not
automatically translate into better health and safety practice for the future. Institutional memory dims over time. This
confirms that good health and safety performance is only achievable with the effective, continued involvement of
the three key participants: employers, employees and the government regulator."




The sad fact is that Self regulation in Health and safety costs workers in injuries and lives. A thrid party regulartory agency is needed.

This was learnt only 10 years earlier in the inquiry into the deaths in the rail industry in the late 1990's including 5 in a 12 month period. This was at a time that the rail industry workers were not covered bt the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992 because of a loop hole in the Act.

[BMWST?]

sadly it is not all about hindsight but learning lessons from other industries and taking them on Board. if you read the full Pike river inquiry report one of the conclusions was


from the conclusions to part 2 chapter 20 avaliable as a pdf here
http://pikeriver.royalcommission.govt.nz/vwluResources/Final-Report-Vol2-Ch20/$file/Vol2-Chapter20-only.pdf

"As its inquiry proceeded the commission noted the extent to which the themes identified by inquiries into
previous tragedies were repeated at Pike River. History demonstrates that lessons learnt from past tragedies do not
automatically translate into better health and safety practice for the future. Institutional memory dims over time. This
confirms that good health and safety performance is only achievable with the effective, continued involvement of
the three key participants: employers, employees and the government regulator."




The sad fact is that Self regulation in Health and safety costs workers in injuries and lives. A thrid party regulartory agency is needed.

This was learnt only 10 years earlier in the inquiry into the deaths in the rail industry in the late 1990's including 5 in a 12 month period. This was at a time that the rail industry workers were not covered bt the Health and Safety in Employment Act 1992 because of a loop hole in the Act.

Not talking about the general poor safety culture Paul.I am talking about the decision not to go into the mine directly after the first explosion

[husaberg]

Not talking about the general poor safety culture Paul.I am talking about the decision not to go into the mine directly after the first explosion

Its unlikely that they would have been able to have got into the mine area unfortunately.
I are still extremely upset they were not at least able to have tried. The mines rescre are the expects they alone should have been able to make a decision.
Gary Knowles gloating vindication "for not going in" because of the further explosions that happened many days later still riles me up.
The major problem that people don't consider however is that once the mine was on fire all the infrastructure roof bolts etc are now unable to be trusted.
The pike river tragedy is a systemic failure from the company, the employees, the owners, the governmental organisation that were in charge of mine and occupational safety and of the conservation department.
I hope something other than an end to underground mining will come of this.

But the Nats seem hell bent on selling off the coal reserves of Solid Energy which now includes Pike.

[oldrider]

Its unlikely that they would have been able to have got into the mine area unfortunately.
I are still extremely upset they were not at least able to have tried. The mines rescre are the expects they alone should have been able to make a decision.
Gary Knowles gloating vindication "for not going in" because of the further explosions that happened many days later still riles me up.
The major problem that people don't consider however is that once the mine was on fire all the infrastructure roof bolts etc are now unable to be trusted.
The pike river tragedy is a systemic failure from the company, the employees, the owners, the governmental organisation that were in charge of mine and occupational safety and of the conservation department.
I hope something other than an end to underground mining will come of this.

But the Nats seem hell bent on selling off the coal reserves of Solid Energy which now includes Pike.

True!

Everybody involved has a personal responsibility and accountability for their own actions attitudes and behaviour, there are many mitigating circumstances with Pike river!

The government does not have a bottomless pit of money, they only have what they steal off us the taxpayers and we give them permission to do what they do!

My biggest fear is that "we" will change the government for all the wrong reasons again and that always costs us more money and devalues what we have!

[avgas]

Old man was a shift boss @ Pike, 1 month before d-day.
He had been complaining for about 1 year - finally gave up and walked off site.

I'm thankful he didn't keep trying to fix/mitigate things. So responsibility is a funny term to use, but I know he certainly feels accountable.

The inquiry has never interviewed him. I think he prefers it that way - doesn't matter what he says about the BS management, won't bring the dead back to life.

If we are serious about having mines in NZ - we need to expand the mines inspection teams to that of the 70's. Stop cost cutting on safety. When we do - people die.