Referendum on Asset Sales

[Ocean1]

What a crock of shit, but hey, your ilk will be no more some day.

Ilk, eh?

I know enough now to wright you and your parasitic values off in somma.

And I know how to spell "know".

[oldrider]

go fuck yourself

Thank you! You say the nicest things!

[mashman]

There's a hell of a lot of good shit being done with their money, if you've blinded yourself to that then you're more of a dick than any rich dick I've met so far.

I'm sure there is. Like what? I guarantee you that more would be done without any money.

[Clockwork]

Advantaged? If someone has an “advantage” it’s ideally because they produced more than those comparatively less “advantaged”. Why on earth would you want to “check” productive behaviour?

Love that clause "ideally", because in this world only productive people are wealthy and all poor people are unproductive



So those who earn more continue to earn more? And those who earn less continue to earn less?

You astonish me. Next thing you’ll be blaming the productive for failing to earn less.
Why don't I just back out now and you can write all my arguments for me



“Ruling” class?
“Working class”
“Wealth gaps”

Fuck you’re funny. Sadly, you're not

I suppose most would be happy if their contribution to that pool of wealth was matched by their productivity towards it. Except those who contribute fuck all, they’d be well pissed.
I guess so too. Some are just lazy and deserve nothing but some are just stupid or otherwise disadvantaged, is their sole purpose in your world just to be exploited by unscrupulous people for there own advantage? and anyway the point I was trying to make is that no matter how clever and resourceful we are more and more of us will end up on the wrong side of the balance sheet unless some form of moderation is exercised of the use and the distribution of wealth

See, in a liberalised world the “wealth gap” is a direct function of the “productivity gap”. Do you really believe that? How productive was Rupert Murdoch today do you think? So what did John Key produce while accumulating his wealth?Which tends to mean that you’re responsible for your own wealth.




Ah, no.

So not relevant.

Wealth doesn’t have a balance, it’s a function of the production of goods or services.
Agreed, which is why IMHO it needs to be balanced for the benefit of society. NO, I DONT MEAN STRIP THE WEALTHY OF EVERYTHING THEY OWN AND DIVVEY IT UP AMONG THE POOR, so please don't imply that I do.

And we’ve got a pretty level playing field, here, now. Certainly far more so than at most times in human history. Nobody is denied the means of producing whatever wealth he’s capable of, which is the critical “equity of opportunity” measure you refer to.
Yes, but evidence is that we are moving back the other way many of the social reforms of the 20th century are being undermind daily. Do you doubt the rich are richer than they were 30 years ago. Are the working "productive" masses (aka Working Class, sorry but I couldn't resist) better off now than they were then when one income could run a household?

A true liberal wouldn’t force productive people to support the non-productive. In that sense a left-leaning liberal is a contradiction in terms. I never claimed everyone could benefit from a libertarian approach. I reckon you become responsible for yourself at adulthood, including your income. So my particular version would see the field forcibly levelled for non adults: you get a free education to tertiary level, and free health care.

After that you get to grow up.

I want to engage in a rational debate but I'm a sensitive sole and I was a little hurt by the tone of your reply so try to imagine that I'm 2m tall, 300kgs of seething muscle, I have a bad attitude, a club with a nail through it and we are having this debate face to face in a dark pub car park. That way we can both be sure that your response will not contain any gratuitous ad homonyms

[bogan]

I'm sure there is. Like what? I guarantee you that more would be done without any money.

Charities, basic infrastructure, healthcare, innovative technologies... you know, just a few little things here and there Your posts are far too blinkered and uniformed for your guarantee to be worth shit I'm afraid.

[mashman]

Ilk, eh?

I know enough now to wright you and your parasitic values off in somma.

And I know how to spell "know".

Given the shit you posted. Ilk seems a fitting word to use.

No you don't, but I know that won't stop a determined man like you.

Doesn't redeem your earlier tripe post though.

[oldrider]

I believe that capitalism/competition (yes winners AND losers) and the market can improve life for all of us but not without some form of social control, some way of asserting equality of opportunity (not outcome) and some degree of wealth redistribution. In my opinion, that is socialism and I can't see why so many consider the idea so abhorrent.

I think most people have difficulty finding their point of equilibrium like that and most try to identify some sort of middle ground in the centre between left and right!

I started out being brainwashed to the left but as I grew older and saw what it did to peoples minds I drifted toward the right and saw a more responsible world.

As said previously left right or centre all have their positive and negative points but are all controlled negatively by the evils of the current monetary system.

We can devise interplanetary systems but we are unable to provide each other with a constructive money system devoid of wars, booms and busts?

What utter bullshit! ... That is partially my basis for believing that the monetary system is being manipulated against us despite our best efforts to operate it!

[mashman]

Charities, basic infrastructure, healthcare, innovative technologies... you know, just a few little things here and there Your posts are far too blinkered and uniformed for your guarantee to be worth shit I'm afraid.

Charity a good thing? Perpetuating the need for charity? Really?
Infrastructure? Nope, I believe that win goes to technology.
Healthcare? Science is the reason for healthcare advances.
Innovative technologies? I guess the clue is in the words. Innovation assisted by technology.

Throw the rest up then... coz it ain't money dun gud that'll be responsible for the vast majority of the exceptional things that we have accomplished so far. So leveling blinkered and uninformed at me is like throwing yer undies at the window and expecting them to stick when you haven't made them moist yet. F-.

[husaberg]

There's a hell of a lot of good shit being done with their money, .

Please tell us what?

[scumdog]

What a crock of shit, but hey, your ilk will be no more some day.

Don't hold your breath...

[Clockwork]

It can only be one of those?

What about: It was a time when people had first hand experience of the poverty almost all of humanity has historically always suffered. It was a time when the exponential productive effect of the industrial revolution and war-bred technology offered opportunities to everyone. It was a time when those who'd lived through the war and/or it's subsequent depression took advantage of those opportunities as the obvious road to prosperity, they were very aware of the consequences of failing to produce something of value.

You want to revive that age? Teach the awareness of the consequences of the failure to produce value at the earliest possible age.

I believe there were other forces at work. Sure there was production, paid for by higher taxes and needed to rebuild the damage of the war years, but also the was a shortage of labour (yeah, apologies for using the l word. Lower case "l" ok?) so wage too were higher, that and industry hadn't yet thought of exporting productive work in order to increase their profits at the expense of their workforce who in many cases were also their customers.

[mashman]

You want to revive that age? Teach the awareness of the consequences of the failure to produce value at the earliest possible age.

I want that age.

[carbonhed]

I want to engage in a rational debate but I'm a sensitive sole and I was a little hurt by the tone of your reply so try to imagine that I'm 2m tall, 300kgs of seething muscle, I have a bad attitude, a club with a nail through it and we are having this debate face to face in a dark pub car park. That way we can both be sure that your response will not contain any gratuitous ad homonyms

It's ad hominem... but I understand your reluctance to go there.

On the other hand this is KB... take off your slippers and wade in, the sewage is fine, up to your armpits and rising!

[bogan]

Charity a good thing? Perpetuating the need for charity? Really?
Infrastructure? Nope, I believe that win goes to technology.
Healthcare? Science is the reason for healthcare advances.
Innovative technologies? I guess the clue is in the words. Innovation assisted by technology.

Throw the rest up then... coz it ain't money dun gud that'll be responsible for the vast majority of the exceptional things that we have accomplished so far. So leveling blinkered and uninformed at me is like throwing yer undies at the window and expecting them to stick when you haven't made them moist yet. F-.

Technology is but part of the equation, it also needs funding to make it a reality (and more funding to do the research in the first place). At the end of the day, people do all those things, money is just a tool to move resources around.

You still got rich dicks soaking up the resources on useless crap, you got lazy fuckers soaking up resources and providing nothing of value back. You also got hard working guys struggling to get their share, and rich guys providing far more than their share of value back to society. To not address or even acknowledge any of those groups and the myriad of other ones in between shows you as blinkered and uninformed.

I don't think our current system is perfect, or even the best that we could do. As with the topic at hand, it is not the money but what is done with it; sold for the right reasons and I support asset sales, sold for the wrong reasons and I don't; I have no fucking clue what the real reasons are so my referendum paper is in the bin. And it isn't money that obscures those reasons.

Please tell us what?

See my previous reply to mashy.

[Clockwork]

It's ad hominem... but I understand your reluctance to go there.

On the other hand this is KB... take off your slippers and wade in, the sewage is fine, up to your armpits and rising!

This is what happens when ones vocabulary exceeds ones edukashun.