Referendum on Asset Sales

[mashman]

Technology is but part of the equation, it also needs funding to make it a reality (and more funding to do the research in the first place). At the end of the day, people do all those things, money is just a tool to move resources around.

You still got rich dicks soaking up the resources on useless crap, you got lazy fuckers soaking up resources and providing nothing of value back. You also got hard working guys struggling to get their share, and rich guys providing far more than their share of value back to society. To not address or even acknowledge any of those groups and the myriad of other ones in between shows you as blinkered and uninformed.

I don't think our current system is perfect, or even the best that we could do. As with the topic at hand, it is not the money but what is done with it; sold for the right reasons and I support asset sales, sold for the wrong reasons and I don't; I have no fucking clue what the real reasons are so my referendum paper is in the bin. And it isn't money that obscures those reasons.

WTF? or is that just as far back as you care to go? You don't think that once upon a time man innovated without the use of money? Coz iffen ye doo, I disagree with ya. We do, currently, move A to B so that we can consume. Money does not need to be a core requirement for such things to function in exactly the same way as they currently do.

Oh I am sorry that you haven't heard me go off on a congratulatory wankfest in regards to how great we are. I know how good we are. I know that we're much MUCH better than the financial economy allows to become. But please, you carry on adding the groupings of your choice into the equation and see how far we get. I am positively banking on those guys being the ones to lead us forwards. It'll happen 1 of 2 ways. Currently I think we're using those talents for the wrong reasons. Yes there are guys who work hard and earn money. Yes there are guys who work hard and earn a lot less money than the previous guy... that's also working just as hard. Please tell me again about blinkered and uninformed. Any excuse to justify the inequality of two guys working hard, but 1 goes home to everything and one goes home to dry the damp windows because they're trying to cut back on electricity, is bullshit. Money seriously fucks up that equation... and many other things too.

Oh but it is the money. As you point out, as a society we aren't the worst that we could ever be, but we're by no means anywhere near our best. As Zedder points out, Scandanavia taxes hard and people pay. Why isn't every economy based on theirs? Right Reasons... aye, Right as in ideology, not necessarily benefit though? Reckon the short-term gain is worth it? I don't. I've never understood why you sell off assets when you could ask the public if they would prefer a 2% tax increase. I would rather the increase, but we don't get the choice, do we? That's the Left's job .

In "my" economy/society, Asset Sales wouldn't happen (neither would the vast majority of financially related retardery)... in fact no-one would know what the term meant .

[husaberg]

See my previous reply to mashy.

Oh i seen it don't worry. It's just you made a pretty bold statement about "all the good being done with the money"....... i just want you to show me it?
The good being done that is all.
I am not talking about a tax deduction here.

[bogan]

WTF? or is that just as far back as you care to go? You don't think that once upon a time man innovated without the use of money? Coz iffen ye doo, I disagree with ya. We do, currently, move A to B so that we can consume. Money does not need to be a core requirement for such things to function in exactly the same way as they currently do.

Oh I am sorry that you haven't heard me go off on a congratulatory wankfest in regards to how great we are. I know how good we are. I know that we're much MUCH better than the financial economy allows to become. But please, you carry on adding the groupings of your choice into the equation and see how far we get. I am positively banking on those guys being the ones to lead us forwards. It'll happen 1 of 2 ways. Currently I think we're using those talents for the wrong reasons. Yes there are guys who work hard and earn money. Yes there are guys who work hard and earn a lot less money than the previous guy... that's also working just as hard. Please tell me again about blinkered and uninformed. Any excuse to justify the inequality of two guys working hard, but 1 goes home to everything and one goes home to dry the damp windows because they're trying to cut back on electricity, is bullshit. Money seriously fucks up that equation... and many other things too.

Oh but it is the money. As you point out, as a society we aren't the worst that we could ever be, but we're by no means anywhere near our best. As Zedder points out, Scandanavia taxes hard and people pay. Why isn't every economy based on theirs? Right Reasons... aye, Right as in ideology, not necessarily benefit though? Reckon the short-term gain is worth it? I don't. I've never understood why you sell off assets when you could ask the public if they would prefer a 2% tax increase. I would rather the increase, but we don't get the choice, do we? That's the Left's job .

In "my" economy/society, Asset Sales wouldn't happen... in fact no-one would know what the term meant .

Once upon a time we didn't have the range of commodities and global trade we do now, wonder if money had anything to do with those advances
Some sort of trade medium is thusly required, ideally it is one where the people have a say, perhaps proportional to the value they add to society.
Money does not fuck up that equation for the guy saving electricity, how the money is distributed does.

So, you would give money to ensure such assets are not sold overseas, good shit imo, did you buy a few shares in them then? (iirc they had a sale of some stuff to NZ residents a while back)

Oh i seen it don't worry. It's just you made a pretty bold statement about "all the good being done with the money"....... i just want you to show me it?
The good being done that is all.
I am not talking about a tax deduction here.

Ah, so those who do it for the good of others but also get a tax deduction is somehow not a good act? Maybe you should ask those who get the needed health-care/infrastructure/etc if they think it was good or not.

[mashman]

Once upon a time we didn't have the range of commodities and global trade we do now, wonder if money had anything to do with those advances
Some sort of trade medium is thusly required, ideally it is one where the people have a say, perhaps proportional to the value they add to society.
Money does not fuck up that equation for the guy saving electricity, how the money is distributed does.

So, you would give money to ensure such assets are not sold overseas, good shit imo, did you buy a few shares in them then? (iirc they had a sale of some stuff to NZ residents a while back)

Advances? Some of the policy is utter madness. Shipping food from around the globe when you could grow it all locally, and in many cases do? And all of those other advances in society that are underpinned by the financial system. Is just a for instance.
Ideally, ooooo I giggled... who decides what is of value? the Rich guys?
It fucks up that equation in quite tremendous fashion. Poverty being one of the problems. That people have to pay for electricity to keep warm or the houses dry is a fuckin travesty. Without money in the equation, the latter is possible without anyone needing to fiddle the system to pay the bill or be labelled as a bludger, amongst other things.

It might have been nice to have been offered an alternative. A financial transaction tax, given all money is taxed , would have been easier to control imho. No shares. There's always something ya need money for. Last month it was dental care. This month it's Christmas. Next month it's getting leaky fork seal fixed. Taxing me harder wouldn't be overly appreciated, but hey, I'd rather the long term revenue... but as you say, that is being ignored and Genesis is up next. We still have over $50 billion of overseas debt. Even though our economy did well? Job losses to make the energy company's look good etc... yuk, what a shit civilisation.

[bogan]

Advances? Some of the policy is utter madness. Shipping food from around the globe when you could grow it all locally, and in many cases do? And all of those other advances in society that are underpinned by the financial system. Is just a for instance.
Ideally, ooooo I giggled... who decides what is of value? the Rich guys?
It fucks up that equation in quite tremendous fashion. Poverty being one of the problems. That people have to pay for electricity to keep warm or the houses dry is a fuckin travesty. Without money in the equation, the latter is possible without anyone needing to fiddle the system to pay the bill or be labelled as a bludger, amongst other things.

It might have been nice to have been offered an alternative. A financial transaction tax, given all money is taxed , would have been easier to control imho. No shares. There's always something ya need money for. Last month it was dental care. This month it's Christmas. Next month it's getting leaky fork seal fixed. Taxing me harder wouldn't be overly appreciated, but hey, I'd rather the long term revenue... but as you say, that is being ignored and Genesis is up next. We still have over $50 billion of overseas debt. Even though our economy did well? Job losses to make the energy company's look good etc... yuk, what a shit civilisation.

Sure, as are many of the proposed 'solutions' which don't involve money. If you continually fixate on the negatives you'll never get a balanced view of things.

Without money in the equation, the later needs to be addressed by some other means, wizards still aren't real you know.

No shares, c'mon mashy, be the change you wish to see, don't just whine about it.

[mashman]

Sure, as are many of the proposed 'solutions' which don't involve money. If you continually fixate on the negatives you'll never get a balanced view of things.

Without money in the equation, the later needs to be addressed by some other means, wizards still aren't real you know.

No shares, c'mon mashy, be the change you wish to see, don't just whine about it.

Pah... I've never contemplated the other side? I lived it for 37 years and decided to question what I "knew". I NOW, heh, kNOW better. I ain't fixated on it, but I do know sense when I hear it, eventually.

How about the individual?

... mate I want teeth and a functioning motorbike ATM, I'll leave the shares for you. I'm nice that way.

[bogan]

Pah... I've never contemplated the other side? I lived it for 37 years and decided to question what I "knew". I NOW, heh, kNOW better. I ain't fixated on it, but I do know sense when I hear it, eventually.

How about the individual?

... mate I want teeth and a functioning motorbike ATM, I'll leave the shares for you. I'm nice that way.

The individual always finds something else they need more than the state needs its assets, or more than some random bloke needs the same quality of life. Resources gotta be managed because of that; I mean if one of the most vocal anti-money guys can't practice what he preaches, what hope do the rest of us have?

[mashman]

The individual always finds something else they need more than the state needs its assets, or more than some random bloke needs the same quality of life. Resources gotta be managed because of that; I mean if one of the most vocal anti-money guys can't practice what he preaches, what hope do the rest of us have?

that old chestnut. It's not just about me, especially on the home front. Conversations have been had. Certain things require a different direction. All because of money. But I have cut my hours at work, so getting there, slowly but surely.

[husaberg]

Once upon a time we didn't have the range of commodities and global trade we do now, wonder if money had anything to do with those advances
Some sort of trade medium is thusly required, ideally it is one where the people have a say, perhaps proportional to the value they add to society.
Money does not fuck up that equation for the guy saving electricity, how the money is distributed does.

So, you would give money to ensure such assets are not sold overseas, good shit imo, did you buy a few shares in them then? (iirc they had a sale of some stuff to NZ residents a while back)


Ah, so those who do it for the good of others but also get a tax deduction is somehow not a good act? Maybe you should ask those who get the needed health-care/infrastructure/etc if they think it was good or not.

Oh i think you missed my point. I think most would rather have paid less for a service or goods than for some to receive a handout.

[bogan]

Oh i think you missed my point. I think most would rather have paid less for a service or goods than for some to receive a handout.

Yeh, probly cos I don't see how that point is relevant.

[husaberg]

Yeh, probly cos I don't see how that point is relevant.

See thread title lol

[bogan]

See thread title lol

Oh, I think you missed my first point, the their I was referring to is not those pockets who will be lined from the asset sales. It was simply pointing out that investors do good shit, despite having so much of that money mashy likes to portray as the scourge of the world.

[husaberg]

Oh, I think you missed my first point, the their I was referring to is not those pockets who will be lined from the asset sales. It was simply pointing out that investors do good shit, despite having so much of that money mashy likes to portray as the scourge of the world.

Ah but why do we already need to invest in something we already own the dividends come from profits, so do the bonus for the exce, Nows guess what is the bestest way to maximise profit. I am not against profit, but it should not be the primary driver for an SOE.
refer to their charters. They will be rejigged to suit the new ownership model..

[bogan]

Ah but why do we already need to invest in something we already own the dividends come from profits, so do the bonus for the exce, Nows guess what is the bestest way to maximise profit. I am not against profit, but it should not be the primary driver for an SOE.
refer to their charters. They will be rejigged to suit the new ownership model..

I'm with you on all that. But there is also debt to consider and balance out, sure keeping it as an SOE allows profits/dividends/discount to be passed back to kiwis, but if kiwis have to pay through the arsehole to keep up debt interest payments, what is the benefit of keeping the SOE?
Though, at the end of the day, the slimey fucker is probably going to grin and say how he has reduced the debt or whatever and neglect to mention he could only do that by asset sales. If he tries that shit it'll be instant vote loss from me.

[Ocean1]

Though, at the end of the day, the slimey fucker is probably going to grin and say how he has reduced the debt or whatever and neglect to mention he could only do that by asset sales. If he tries that shit it'll be instant vote loss from me.

It was election promise No 1. Did you not notice?