Referendum on Asset Sales

[Oscar]

You sir have no idea the Jobs Saved, they are F all how many jobs did they shed from Solid energy a company NZ own?
Rio Tinto and the previous owners have Never put F-all back into NZ, we and our Parents have subsided it with cheap power and massive tax breaks.
Look closer at the deal, see how long the guarantee of jobs is, think how much better off the Av NZ citizen would be with a power surplus in NZ.Unless of course you wanted to sell the Power generation company.


Solid Energy was not bailed out ask yourself why? ask yourself why the books were made to look so bad
They had a paper loss atributed to the decrease in the value of the coal reserves, They amazingly posted an actual real terms profit.
Ask yourself where their value is in the Company that holds the licenses for most of the Coal resources in NZ.
From Memory Solid energy gave a return of 70 million back to the government before they "collaped"(this does not include the other stuff btw)
They have shed over 1000 "direct Jobs" not the Jobs RIo Tinto claim, their actual jobs are tiny...They don't employee as many people as they make out.

They wanted 20 million from memory LOL

How much coffee have you had this morning?
Why can't you stick to one topic?

There are 800 people employed at Tiwai directly, with a further 2,000 indirectly owing their livelyhood to the smelter.
It is the largest employer in Southland.
If memory serves, the Govt had $220m of tax revenue at risk over the next 5 years if Tiwai closed.

So you would cripple an entire province to get cheaper power?

[husaberg]

Pictures with slogans say - "I'm too stupid to articulate my own opinion".
No wonder the old boy thought you were in the Labour party..

Funny you don't like what they say? as half of them are quotes from John lol.
I haven't seen your opinion? thrill me with it then

[husaberg]

How much coffee have you had this morning?
Why can't you stick to one topic?

There are 800 people employed at Tiwai directly, with a further 2,000 indirectly owing their livelyhood to the smelter.
It is the largest employer in Southland.
If memory serves, the Govt had $220m of tax revenue at risk over the next 5 years if Tiwai closed.

So you would cripple an entire province to get cheaper power?

It is one Topic.......
Baaaabaaaaaa show me the figures....lol
Seen the West Coast lately............
How many jobs are they going to "save" again for how long.
You said how good the RIO Tinto deal was for NZ? Did you mean for Southland?
I showed you examples of where the deals weren't done can you figure out the why?
If you can't see how the RIO Tinto deal ties to Assets sales i don't think anyone can help you at all

[oldrider]

I don't vote National but I will next election just to cancel husaberg out ... another wasted vote damn it!

[bogan]

So skim read through this, with it being non binding and lacking in options (though better worded than the last one) is the referendum worth voting on? Seems an awfully expensive way of gauging public opinion is all.

And what's the long term ramifications of a sale? I mean is the interest on debt more than those companies are likely to earn? Is there better uses for the money?

[Oscar]

It is one Topic.......
Baaaabaaaaaa show me the figures....lol
Seen the West Coast lately............
How many jobs are they going to "save" again for how long.
You said how good the RIO Tinto deal was for NZ? Did you mean for Southland?
I showed you examples of where the deals weren't done can you figure out the why?
If you can't see how the RIO Tinto deal ties to Assets sales i don't think anyone can help you at all

Wow, you really should try decaf.

What figures do you seek?

Of course the Rio Tinto deal ties into the sale (and long term value) of Meridian, I never said it didn't
You'd put hundreds of people of of a job because it was helpful for asset sales?

[husaberg]

Wow, you really should try decaf.

What figures do you seek?

Of course the Rio Tinto deal ties into the sale (and long term value) of Meridian, I never said it didn't
You'd put hundreds of people of of a job because it was helpful for asset sales?

The Figures that show just how much the smelter benefits NZ. Real figures. Not Rio Tinto spin...
You said my stuff wasn't on subject and it turns out it was......
Hello Solid Energy...................

[Oscar]

The Figures that show just how much the smelter benefits NZ. Real figures. Not Rio Tinto spin...
You said my stuff wasn't on subject and it turns out it was......
Hello Solid Energy...................

Only in your twisted reality.

[oldrider]

So skim read through this, with it being non binding and lacking in options (though better worded than the last one) is the referendum worth voting on? Seems an awfully expensive way of gauging public opinion is all.

And what's the long term ramifications of a sale? I mean is the interest on debt more than those companies are likely to earn? Is there better uses for the money?

The government have not sold any assets ... they have allowed investment (shares) in 49% of the assets to free up tax money for other things! (personal choice)

Unfortunately the loony lefties have wasted most of the benefits gained on a stupid non binding meaningless referendum FFS!

Who's interest are they really concerned about? ... Their own electoral path to POWER based on distorting the facts!

[bogan]

The government have not sold any assets ... they have allowed investment (shares) in 49% of the assets to free up tax money for other things! (personal choice)

Unfortunately the loony lefties have wasted most of the benefits gained on a stupid non binding meaningless referendum FFS!

Who's interest are they really concerned about? ... Their own electoral path to POWER based on distorting the facts!

So, they allowed 49% investment, and that only freed up enough money for a couple of referendums? Must be a fucking shit way of freeing up money then.

The loony lefties here at least seem to have a relevant point, the raving righties are more interested in attacking the lefties than making their own it would seem.

[oldrider]

So, they allowed 49% investment, and that only freed up enough money for a couple of referendums? Must be a fucking shit way of freeing up money then.

Don't know if it is or it isn't in a democracy it would be nice to allow the incumbents to get the job done so the results can be judged in reality.

The real referendum was the last election this stupid fucking referendum is not worthy and shall be judged as a waste of time and money!

So Labour and some combination of the left get the vote next year at this rate all we (Taxpayers) can expect is more of the same with a different colour!

This country is fucked IMHO.

[mashman]

This country is fucked IMHO.

NZ ain't the only one... not by a long way eh. How to politically pacify your population: Give them a vote.

[husaberg]

The government have not sold any assets ... they have allowed investment (shares) in 49% of the assets to free up tax money for other things! (personal choice)

Unfortunately the loony lefties have wasted most of the benefits gained on a stupid non binding meaningless referendum FFS!

Who's interest are they really concerned about? ... Their own electoral path to POWER based on distorting the facts!

Investment that's a nice word.
The first sales were to NZ's but the second and any sale there on..........
We have brought back Railways and Air NZ before.
The commercial reality is thus.
SOE's as part of their charter were unable to return huge profits.
They were required to behave and price in a responsible manner.
If you don't believe me look it up.
This structure prevented the exorbitant profits thereby capping the price of electricity to reasonably affordable levels.

With the sale of shares the major focus of these companies moves to returns for the shareholders
Now guess what is the way to achieve that.
without the charter guess which way power prices will head.
The right wing will say the competition model will work.

[Oscar]

The right wing will say the competition model will work.

Do some research on NZ Railways prior to 1984.

[husaberg]

Only in your twisted reality.

Answer questions. Oh wait you can't, or won't. My money is on can't.
Guess what the referendum is about
which asset sales remind me again.
Look at the end.......SOLID ENERGY.
I will say it again SOLID ENERGY

There are 800 people employed at Tiwai directly, with a further 2,000 indirectly owing their livelyhood to the smelter.
It is the largest employer in Southland.
If memory serves, the Govt had $220m of tax revenue at risk over the next 5 years if Tiwai closed.

So you would cripple an entire province to get cheaper power?

OK - Rio Tinto: How many jobs did they save? Just based on the amount of GST generated in the region by Rio Tinto, contractors and workers, $30m is the bargain of the century.

Pictures with slogans say - "I'm too stupid to articulate my own opinion".
No wonder the old boy thought you were in the Labour party..

Do some research on NZ Railways prior to 1984.

Don't need to.
Railways had a monopoly was used as a foil to keep the unemployment level down, was restructured dramatically with the road transport reforms and sold for the equivalent of two years profits, for Fay and Richwhite. They ran it down into the ground hocked off anything of value sold it to Toll and then we brought it back before it was totally destroyed for 1 dollar. (railnetwork only) but there was a catch. we the tax payers had to pay through the nose to make it safe again. Plus as part of the deal the former owner still had rights of using it for F-all.

How about you use your brain and do your own research on the history of the smelter and the deals done rather than listen to local government spin driven by RIO TInto. Go on you might be surprised what you will find if you bothered to look.

No they released the increase not the figures.
Suffice to say it is a great deal and the owners have always paid hardball. The plant is for sale and is not likely to remain economic long term because they paid to much for it in a biding war. Rio Tinto are unable to pull out for about 6 years. it will take 3 years to upgrade and put in new lines


Because John was wanting to run the company into the ground, so he could sell the resource offshore. It was a great way to destroy the union.Nz Per capita has the largest coal reserves next to Aussie. But ours is higher quailty.


If we have to pay well above actual market rate because it cost so much to support the smelter and build additional capacity for normal growth (36 billion eq for Manapori at today's costs) it is not a win win.
They rolled the state governments with the same tactics. Tasmainia they now regret it because they are now going back for another go.
(comalco was worse) when you look at what they used to play. and are threatening to pull out without extra support. Rio tinto economic benefit figures don't stack up


They originally wanted to do it there. but couldn't or more likely wouldn't finance it. When the locals objected to their cheap option of increasing the lake level either 30 meters and build dams to achieve it.Rather than what the NZED did.

Oh have a read of this 3.5 cents a unit although it has gone up 30% since then.
http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/...mm0692_07.html

highlights

If i could be assed i would post all the stuff but read the stuff yourself I had the same argument with the Rio TInto stuff but with the Labour Union lies thrown in re the warner Bros deal. if you follow the links you will see.
But you won't because you know you are so right already without even looking for yourself.You never know you could surprise me by reading something.........
Start from here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...0-years/page34