Cheap gas...

**slofox** · 19th December 2013, 09:24

Gull Norton Road, here in the Tron, has reduced prices on gas today. I filled up with Force 10 for 2.14.9c/l. 91 was 1.99c/l.

So assuming you aren't one of those who eschews ethanol blends, go get it.

**Zedder** · 19th December 2013, 10:49

Helpful post there slofox.

"Cheap gas and a 3 day growth..."

**Geeen** · 19th December 2013, 11:28

Originally Posted by slofox

Gull Norton Road, here in the Tron, has reduced prices on gas today. I filled up with Force 10 for 2.14.9c/l. 91 was 1.99c/l.

So assuming you aren't one of those who eschews ethanol blends, go get it.

Cheers for that, you are braver than me filling at Gull. I know of too many instances of that gas doing unspeakable things to engines..

**slofox** · 19th December 2013, 11:31

Originally Posted by Geeen

Cheers for that, you are braver than me filling at Gull. I know of too many instances of that gas doing unspeakable things to engines..

I've done 90,000km on Gull fuel, on two different bikes, with nary a hint of trouble.

You just need an ethanol tolerant fuel system.

**Zedder** · 19th December 2013, 12:07

Iirc Gull stopped supplying the 91 ethanol type since early this year.

**Maha** · 19th December 2013, 14:34

$2.06 here, almost worth a trip....

na as you were, the price is for 91.

**Icemaestro** · 19th December 2013, 15:13

Caltex new lynn (auckland) is 1.98$/L for 91...no crappy ethanol either. The Gulls up here in auckland all still say ethanol blend?

**SPman** · 19th December 2013, 15:23

Best prices available from 6:00am today Thursday 19 December 2013 Perth WA

Product	North of River	South of River	East/Hills	Metro Average
ULP	139.1	139.1	141.8	156.4
PULP	150.1	150.1	151.8	167.5
Diesel	153.5	155.7	155.7	162.1
LPG	93.8	93.3	94.9	97.2
98 RON	156.1	156.1	157.8	173.6
B20	157.9	157.9	155.9	157.9
E10	141.5	141.7	142.7	142.1
P100	159.5	159.7		160.0
E85	139.7	139.7		140.0

**Zedder** · 19th December 2013, 16:05

Originally Posted by Icemaestro

Caltex new lynn (auckland) is 1.98$/L for 91...no crappy ethanol either. The Gulls up here in auckland all still say ethanol blend?

The Gull station on Albany Highway certainly doesn't have ethanol 91 and told me they don't have plans to supply it any time soon: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU130...of-ethanol.htm

**awa355** · 19th December 2013, 18:41

Neighbours car, Free,

**Icemaestro** · 19th December 2013, 20:26

Huh cool..I haven't been to gull for a while now because of the ethanol thing..maybe time to go back!

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**slofox** · 19th December 2013, 21:20

Back in the day, I had a bit to do with alcohol fueled bikes. Here is some of what I learned:

Ethanol was the original fuel for internal combustion engines. We only got into petroleum because John D Rocketfellow (as I heard it when I was four) owned tonnes of oil and had no use for it. So he made an alternative ICE fuel from it and with the benefit of the usual USA advertising system, sold it to everyone. Including ourselves a million years on (or some of us anyway).

Ethanol burns cleaner than petroleum because the alcohol molecule differs from that of petroleum products like benzine. Benzene rings (present in all oil based fuel) have three double bonds (IIRC from school chem.) Alcohols have a chain structure without any double bonds.

Double bonds are a two edged sword. When fractured, the double bonds give out lotsa energy - hence the greater thermic value of petrol over ethanol. BUT. If combustion is not ideal, the double bonds can leave unburnt carbon around the place - like in your engine.

The single bonds of alcohol, AND the oxygen molecule, (CH3-CH2-OH) ensure cleaner combustion so that you have less engine deposits in the long term. But you do have lower energy released. So you use a bit more of the ethanol gas.

The problems with using alcomahol for fuel is twofold:

1. There is less ethanol for us all to drink.
2. You do need a fuel system that tolerates alcohol. The solvent powers of oil based fuels and ethanol based fuels are very different. If you have the correct materials in your fuel system, then ethanol blends will not harm your engine.

Hell, we used to run old BSA singles on methanol as sprint bikes once. None of them ever went bang...(actually, come to think of it, they were fucking hard to start as well...and none of them ever won a race...hmmmm...)

**Icemaestro** · 20th December 2013, 06:29

So what would one have to do in order to run a bike on ethanol (pure)? Just out of interest..

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**haydes55** · 20th December 2013, 08:02

Originally Posted by Icemaestro

So what would one have to do in order to run a bike on ethanol (pure)? Just out of interest..

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A modern engine should have fuel hoses and other seals etc. Which can cope with ethanol blends safely.

But running on pure ethanol would be different. Presuming it is as damaging as methanol, it should be drained from the carbs every time it is left for longer than a couple days.

Methanol and ethanol are hydroscopic, so moisture in the air slowly absorbs into the fuel, diluting it. So stale fuel is an issue if you buy a drum of it and can't use it fast enough.

And as Slofox said, the combustion isn't as intense as petrol, but it burns cleaner, so more of it can go into the cylinder. So to get a HP gain or even keep it equal to what it is on petrol, you need to increase the jets in the carb or get the injectors to push more gas through.