Referendum on Asset Sales

[Oscar]

Come on John you said Labour lied (Well i assume you mean Labour, by your left leaning comment)...regarding the asset sales... about what?

Here is Some of the History of Manapoiri and the smelter.

Feature
Comalco's Power Play
by Murray Horton

-snip-

You already posted that link, numbnuts.
Instead of posting links, cartoons and quotes from other people, why don't you elucidate your theory in your own words , say 40 words or less?
Betcha can't.

[mashman]

You already posted that link, numbnuts.
Instead of posting links, cartoons and quotes from other people, why don't you elucidate your theory in your own words , say 40 words or less?
Betcha can't.

So you got nothin then.

[Oscar]

So you got nothin then.

I'm not the one trying to connect the dots with a combination of links, quotes and cartoons.

[husaberg]

The Govt ran Solid Energy into the ground so it could sell it cheap to its mates.

In a round about way yes, coupled with very poor governance by the board. But there is method to the madness.

The Govt saved Rio Tinto coz they're matey.
At least that's what the gist of it appears to be,

The Government didn't "Save" Rio Tinto because they are matey, they didn't need saving, they are tied there until (fill in later) but they bowed to them because Rio Tinto's threats threatened to destabilise the asset sales.

Of course the referendum is about Solid Energy - it's on the ballot, and it's in the Govt's assets sales policy.

You are the one who consistently said whats Solid Energy got to do with it?
you also said.(add later)

Wow, you really should try decaf.

What figures do you seek?

Of course the Rio Tinto deal ties into the sale (and long term value) of Meridian, I never said it didn't
You'd put hundreds of people of of a job because it was helpful for asset sales?

The Figures that show just how much the smelter benefits NZ. Real figures. Not Rio Tinto spin...
You said my stuff wasn't on subject and it turns out it was......
Hello Solid Energy...................

Only in your twisted reality.

But notwithstanding who ran Solid Energy into the ground, it ain't gonna be sold, coz it ain't worth nothing.

Solid Energy is actually extremely valuable because on its books it holds the mineral licenses to a huge clunk of NZ.
As a mining company with a work force and liabilities and having to perform to the SOE charter its value is not so much.

As for Rio Tinto - your call: cheaper power for everyone, jobs for Southland.

Southland wouldn't "lose" jobs because there is a wind-down cause, they also have to clean up the place they also have to construct more Tranmission lines to efficiently transport the power out of Manapori, long term the smelter has no future, It isn't efficient enough, It hasn't moved with the current technology,Granted it makes great high quality product, but not efficiently enough. NZ exchange rate and labour costs and environmental policies make it cheaper to start from scratch elsewhere rather reinvest here.

[Oscar]

In a round about way yes, coupled with very poor governance by the board. But there is method to the madness.


The Government didn't "Save" Rio Tinto because they are matey, they didn't need saving, they are tied there until (fill in later) but they bowed to them because Rio Tinto's threats threatened to destabilise the asset sales.


You are the one who consistently said whats Solid Energy got to do with it?
you also said.(add later)


Solid Energy is actually extremely valuable because on its books it holds the mineral licenses to a huge clunk of NZ.
As a mining company with a work force and liabilities and having to perform to the SOE charter its value is not so much.


Southland wouldn't "lose" jobs because there is a wind-down cause, they also have to clean up the place they also have to construct more Tranmission lines to efficiently transport the power out of Manapori, long term the smelter has no future it isn't efficient enough it hasn't moved with the current technology,Granted it makes great high quality product, but not efficiently enough. NZ exchange rate and labour costs and environmental policies make it cheaper to start from scratch elsewhere rather reinvest here.

There you go, you made your point, and in one post.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that even if the Govt. was crazy enough to put Solid Energy up for sale (and hell, anything is possible) - who's gonna be dumb enough to buy it?

So where's this edited post then?

[husaberg]

You already posted that link, numbnuts.
Instead of posting links, cartoons and quotes from other people, why don't you elucidate your theory in your own words , say 40 words or less?
Betcha can't.

But you never actually read it did you?
I win arguments based on facts and interpretations of ideas.
you try to win with insults. Why?
You simply say who cares, say crap like, so what, you behave like an impertinent child, only less eloquent.
If you could argue a point it would be interesting, but sadly you lack the basic comprehension skills of reasoning and deduction. You attempt to play the man rather than the ball, but then again you do play a man in real life rather than act like an adult.

because you have a chip on your shoulder, it causes you to consistently act in a belligerent, condescending manner.
Likely because of some physiological trauma in early pubescent, Likely under-endowment, Not sure why but faf for the rest of us

40 words

[mashman]

But you never actually read it did you?
I win arguments based on facts and interpretations of ideas.
you try to win with insults. Why?

It's cheaper than viagra.

[mashman]

I'm not the one trying to connect the dots with a combination of links, quotes and cartoons.

But you're trying to pull the dots where you think they should be using a combination of nothing.

[husaberg]

There you go, you made your point, and in one post.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that even if the Govt. was crazy enough to put Solid Energy up for sale (and hell, anything is possible) - who's gonna be dumb enough to buy it?

You are ignoring the fact about where Solid Energy's value is,(hint its in the post you quoted) okay seeing as you continually need spoon feeding I will put it here again for you

In a round about way yes, coupled with very poor governance by the board. But there is method to the madness.
The Government didn't "Save" Rio Tinto because they are matey, they didn't need saving, they are tied there until (fill in later) but they bowed to them because Rio Tinto's threats threatened to destabilise the asset sales.
You are the one who consistently said whats Solid Energy got to do with it?
you also said.(add later)
Solid Energy is actually extremely valuable because on its books it holds the mineral licenses to a huge clunk of NZ.
As a mining company with a work force and liabilities and having to perform to the SOE charter its value is not so much.
Southland wouldn't "lose" jobs because there is a wind-down cause, they also have to clean up the place they also have to construct more Tranmission lines to efficiently transport the power out of Manapori, long term the smelter has no future it isn't efficient enough it hasn't moved with the current technology,Granted it makes great high quality product, but not efficiently enough. NZ exchange rate and labour costs and environmental policies make it cheaper to start from scratch elsewhere rather reinvest here.

read the post again. its in the "mineral reserves" it holds the licenses to.

Also have a look at Bathurst mines development in Dennison.
You know The one that is going ahead now? because it is still economic starting from scratch even at today's prices........
Do you know where they got the lease license from?
Plus also how much it cost.
Also understand how Solid energy "forgot" to renew the leases they had for the whole area previously.

[husaberg]

I'm not the one trying to connect the dots with a combination of links, quotes and cartoons.

But you're trying to pull the dots where you think they should be using a combination of nothing.

Its a shame cause my 5 year old can figure its way out of a maze,yet other "adults" are unable to play join the dots.

[Banditbandit]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that even if the Govt. was crazy enough to put Solid Energy up for sale (and hell, anything is possible) - who's gonna be dumb enough to buy it?

The same people who were silly enogh to buy used power companies from this Government - only to watch the share prices fall ...

[oldrider]

The same people who were silly enogh to buy used power companies from this Government - only to watch the share prices fall ...

How was the coffee break?

[BMWST?]

Meridian energy is "NOT FOR SALE"! ... Is "not being sold", it has a minority share float of only 49% for sale to private investors that are interested in that investment "choice"!

That will free up taxpayers "compulsorily" invested money for redirection into more worthy and more urgent social activities! ... IMHO that looks a good option!

History will tell us whether it was or was not.

Unfortunately the lies and deceit being espoused by the left leaning opposition parties and the media generally are causing doubt and confusion for prospective investors!

And you are overlooking the reality of the situation.I dont have any particular problem with the govt selling such assets.However why would you undertake this process over such a short time frame.Wether or not there is political "interference" in the process is moot when you are selling such large packets of shares over such a short time frame to "Mum and Dad" investors.It doesnt seem to me to be a process to yield the maximum value from each SOE.

[Banditbandit]

Solid Energy is actually extremely valuable because on its books it holds the mineral licenses to a huge clunk of NZ.
As a mining company with a work force and liabilities and having to perform to the SOE charter its value is not so much.

The value of those mineral licences is only the value of the minerals removed, minus the cost of doing so ...

With a 40% drop in coal prices worldwide that value has gone ...

Given that roughly 70% of the price of any product is the cost of it's production, that leaves 30% for taxes, profits ... but a 40% drop in price cuts out al of that 30% taxes and profits and cuts into the cost of prouction ... i.e. it will cost more to mine than the product will sell for ..

Solid Eergy on that basis is a worthless company ...

How was the coffee break?

Great ..

[avgas]

The value of those mineral licences is only the value of the minerals removed, minus the cost of doing so ...

With a 40% drop in coal prices worldwide that value has gone ...

Given that roughly 70% of the price of any product is the cost of it's production, that leaves 30% for taxes, profits ... but a 40% drop in price cuts out al of that 30% taxes and profits and cuts into the cost of prouction ... i.e. it will cost more to mine than the product will sell for ..

Solid Eergy on that basis is a worthless company ...

Great ..

So has coal production stopped worldwide? I mean if its not cost effective to dig up coal then the world then no one must be digging up. Why would they - through your vast intellect you have shown us that cost is a -30% industry.

Hooray the world will have to stop using coal because it costs too much to get out of the ground. The world is saved.

Or your wrong? Just a thought.

(I do know more here - but I will let you react barbarically and defensively as to why you are not wrong. But I will give you a hint - Solid Energy failed due to expenditure......not getting coal out of the ground and selling if for profit).