Referendum on Asset Sales

[Brian d marge]

I was commenting about Scuba Steve's apparent expression of apprehension in his "for now" post!

National and Labour actually swapped idealogical places in 1984 and hardly any of their died in the wool followers (voters) actually even noticed!

They did however cling onto their traditional name tags so like it or not your Douglas/Prebble/Moore/Arsehole/Arsehole et al were a Labour government!

How is it, that NZ does better economically under a "left leaning" government, than when national are in power?......true....look at all the stats!

I don't know! Today's National and Labour party politicians are so much of the same ilk and so interchangeable that you can't really tell the difference!

Difference between National and Labour Governments that I have seen since the first Labour government has only been cosmetic when you really think about it!

Statistics are there to serve whoever and whatever and they all put their own spin on them anyway same as they have done with this referendum!

Ownership of the assets doesn't matter that much just as long as the service, products or price don't change because that's all I want off them.

The only reason Clark bought back into Air NZ was to secure their (politicians) life time travel perks! ... (which cost the taxpayers plenty)

The old Left/centre/right political bullshit can go out the window now because in truth almost everybody these days tries to claim the middle ground as their own anyway.

Governments are a coalition lucky dip pulled out of a hat and "they will decide" what's good for us regardless what we think we are voting for at any election!

and didnt the reserve bank act make the treasury independent ? and the one who controls the QUANTITY of money has the power

in the mean time Im voting for the ones who look after the finite resources the most

Stephen

[avgas]

I actually had a dark thought the other day,the 49% shares "the Mom and Pop" investors brought becomes pretty worthless when they (the government) hock off the 51% controlling interest to another party.

Its actually worse than that.
- 5-10% will never turnup and vote, they will be passive investors. So 49% is only 45%
- Say a majority (of mom and pop) disagree with whatever the other half oppose - at best you going to get 80% oppose. So 45% is actually an effective force of 36%.

This means a big corporations only needs to buy a 30% stake in the company to cause real trouble. 40% if they want to go unopposed. What we need is a 30% held by a party whom has the best interest of the people......just to balance the argument. But that will never happen.
i.e. 33% private corp held, 33% pubic (moms and pops) and 33% stabilizer (I would say govt, but I am better off believing in unicorns than NZ GOVT has the tax payers interest at heart).

[avgas]

and didnt the reserve bank act make the treasury independent ? and the one who controls the QUANTITY of money has the power

- If RBNZ was independent, the rate would have changed (up and down every 3 months). Rather than being stuck in "Japan Limbo" and being stuck for 4 years.....then leaping whole %

- NZ has no money. We have resources. China could buy us tomorrow with their money. So right now the people hold the resources are the ones whom have the power. The silver lining is it looks like they are selling the resources..........so soon the Govt will be worthless........and NZ might be saved.

[oldrider]

.......so soon the Govt will be worthless......

That's just it, the government is supposed to be worthless ... they should be made to present and sell their ideas to the people that they serve!

Then the public could finance their ideas once the public have accepted and approved of them.

As it is the government holds a gun at the heads of the public and demands (extorts) money (tax) from them to finance their questionable acts and lifestyles!

It has simply become a "legal" (Where, the criminals set the laws!) protection racket and the taxpayers are the victims!

What we need is less government and more accountability to those who hold the real wealth of the country ... the people who produce goods and services!

Governments and banks should be there to provide service to the producers of wealth not the other way round as it has become today!

Unfortunately the tail wags the dog in today's world and the dog is dying or at best always extremely sick as a result! .. Think about it!

[oldrider]

That's just it, the government is supposed to be worthless ... they should be made to present and sell their ideas to the people that they serve!

Then the public could finance their ideas once the public have accepted and approved of them.

As it is the government holds a gun at the heads of the public and demands (extorts) money (tax) from them to finance their questionable acts and lifestyles!

It has simply become a "legal" (Where, the criminals set the laws!) protection racket and the taxpayers are the victims!

What we need is less government and more accountability to those who hold the real wealth of the country ... the people who produce goods and services!

Governments and banks should be there to provide service to the producers of wealth not the other way round as it has become today!

So what is that? Left/Centre/Right politics or just common sense?

Unfortunately the tail wags the dog in today's world and the dog is dying or at best always extremely sick as a result! .. Think about it!

Those who don't contribute by producing goods and services (wealth) should be identified as "passengers" on the gravy train.

Those who can but "choose not to contribute to the wealth" should be free to make that choice but should not expect any share of the wealth in return! (Dole? maybe!)

Those who can not contribute toward the wealth "through no fault of their own" should be included and looked after by those that can. (welfare share)

[avgas]

With todays day and age - why can't the people vote on ideas rather than people?
I mean shit we have facebook/nzherald polls........why can't that be formalised to actual governance?

[oldrider]

With todays day and age - why can't the people vote on ideas rather than people?
I mean shit we have facebook/nzherald polls........why can't that be formalised to actual governance?

Good question ... why can't it? (Why can't anything?)

Three countries have got valid space programs in operation currently!

They are doing it, so why can't we get the same kind of cooperation for governing our countries?

[Zedder]

Gaan take a wee flyin feck tae yersel... dawl.

Just keeping with the abuse theme. Although, your post about the mindless fucktards etc was a bit off.

Maybe people are a little bit busy doing their best to bring up a family or other such things.

[Zedder]

With todays day and age - why can't the people vote on ideas rather than people?
I mean shit we have facebook/nzherald polls........why can't that be formalised to actual governance?

The Swiss are big on this.

[mashman]

Just keeping with the abuse theme. Although, your post about the mindless fucktards etc was a bit off.

Maybe people are a little bit busy doing their best to bring up a family or other such things.

T'was nothing but a virtual slap with a wet bus ticket.

I totally agree... although there is no need for people to move their focus from their family/lives etc... when it comes to thinking. It's a simple thing to do and I'm not expecting people to rush on to the streets and cry bloody murder, this is NZ after all. Besides those who are in positions to affect how we live (i.e. those who fuck people over for a living, knowingly or not), I would have expected that those with a family and working hard for that family would be more concerned with the future that we're setting up for our kids. In that respect I think the mindless fucktards etc... was a little soft.

[Zedder]

T'was nothing but a virtual slap with a wet bus ticket.

I totally agree... although there is no need for people to move their focus from their family/lives etc... when it comes to thinking. It's a simple thing to do and I'm not expecting people to rush on to the streets and cry bloody murder, this is NZ after all. Besides those who are in positions to affect how we live (i.e. those who fuck people over for a living, knowingly or not), I would have expected that those with a family and working hard for that family would be more concerned with the future that we're setting up for our kids. In that respect I think the mindless fucktards etc... was a little soft.

Yeah masho but some people do things via the mainstream while others work by circumvention or whatever they can wangle etc.

That doesn't change the fact they're maybe setting up a future for their kids. You wrote yourself about reducing your work hours, I know people who think anyone doing that is off their rocker.

[avgas]

Good question ... why can't it? (Why can't anything?)
Three countries have got valid space programs in operation currently!
They are doing it, so why can't we get the same kind of cooperation for governing our countries?

As far as I am concerned - if people really want my opinion/thought/vote then it is relation to an idea. Voting for someone else to do the thinking for me - I have $85,000 of university education + years work and life experience.....that tells me I am perfectly fine to wipe my own ass and make my own decisions thanks.
Dictatorship makes more sense to me than elected democrazy. It's like voting for which person is going to fuck you in the arse. Really stupid.

[mashman]

Yeah masho but some people do things via the mainstream while others work by circumvention or whatever they can wangle etc.

That doesn't change the fact they're maybe setting up a future for their kids. You wrote yourself about reducing your work hours, I know people who think anyone doing that is off their rocker.

Aye... yet we're still in a recession, Chch still needs rebuilding, wages aren't rising in line with inflation, blah blah blah... and we're several thousands of years into understanding, technology, civilisation etc...

Absolutely. I have no doubt that there are those setting up futures for their kids (me being 1), good on them, but more it's of concern that they would think no further than that. I don't see us moving any further forwards.

[oldrider]

As far as I am concerned - if people really want my opinion/thought/vote then it is relation to an idea. Voting for someone else to do the thinking for me - I have $85,000 of university education + years work and life experience.....that tells me I am perfectly fine to wipe my own ass and make my own decisions thanks.
Dictatorship makes more sense to me than elected democrazy. It's like voting for which person is going to fuck you in the arse. Really stupid.

Notice how quickly Germany advanced in every sphere (except humanity) whilst under the Nazi dictatorial spell ... (when money wasn't a problem either)

[Zedder]

Aye... yet we're still in a recession, Chch still needs rebuilding, wages aren't rising in line with inflation, blah blah blah... and we're several thousands of years into understanding, technology, civilisation etc...

Absolutely. I have no doubt that there are those setting up futures for their kids (me being 1), good on them, but more it's of concern that they would think no further than that. I don't see us moving any further forwards.

The "wheels of industry/justice/government grind slowly" etc.

A Lawyer mate of mine (I don't tell everyone that...) is doing his best to make sure his son gets into law with the goal of doing something to change things. Another guy I know has a son doing a PhD in Political Science so he can get involved in politics and bring about change.

Different strokes for different folks.