Godzone falling in the international education ratings

[carbonhed]

An example perhaps? Or just an ignorant cheap shot? Thought so....

I thought of referencing the Morning Report performance of the head of the principals ferderation and the edumacation institute both blaming a government who's been in power for 5 years for all the ills that have befallen us... but why bother with that when we've got a blinkered, aggressive, fuckwit right at hand? With dipshits like you at the helm one can only marvel at the resilience of the current generations ability to achieve anything at all... in spite of, not because of your efforts.

[SVboy]

I thought of referencing the Morning Report performance of the head of the principals ferderation and the edumacation institute both blaming a government who's been in power for 5 years for all the ills that have befallen us... but why bother with that when we've got a blinkered, aggressive, fuckwit right at hand? With dipshits like you at the helm one can only marvel at the resilience of the current generations ability to achieve anything at all... in spite of, not because of your efforts.

My we do have some anger issues dont we. I like that you put me at the helm, but you credit me with too much. Perhaps a bit of self reflection would reveal that any education would struggle with a cretin like you, no matter how good. Did you understand the Morning report or did all the big words make you angry and blame those nasty teachers that let you down.....

[mansell]

Fuck this- 5 pages of mindless rhetoric by people outside the sector (well most of you anyway). We've heard it all before: experts who have never been in a classroom for more than ten minutes dictacting a policy of constant change, people telling us we have it easy because we teach school (and have all those wonderful holidays) and everybody with their own "expert" opinion just because they once went to school. Just to explain things - teaching is my second career after a long time involved in industrial chemistry and at any time if I choose I could probably earn 20-30% more working less hours and with a lot less stress. The majority of us in the class room today are passionate about what we do but are constantly hamstrung by the need to prove we can do it. Yes I will admit there are a few shit teachers out there, but they are few and far between (they tend not to last in the profession). These results that everyone is concerned about are a snapshot of the achievement of our students and to me are more indicative of the social problems our society faces at the moment than anything at all to do with the people involved in eductaion at the chalk face.
End of rant

[Oblivion]

NCEA is fucking garbage.

..........

Carry on.

[BoristheBiter]

Fuck this- 5 pages of mindless rhetoric by people outside the sector (well most of you anyway). We've heard it all before: experts who have never been in a classroom for more than ten minutes dictacting a policy of constant change, people telling us we have it easy because we teach school (and have all those wonderful holidays) and everybody with their own "expert" opinion just because they once went to school. Just to explain things - teaching is my second career after a long time involved in industrial chemistry and at any time if I choose I could probably earn 20-30% more working less hours and with a lot less stress. The majority of us in the class room today are passionate about what we do but are constantly hamstrung by the need to prove we can do it. Yes I will admit there are a few shit teachers out there, but they are few and far between (they tend not to last in the profession). These results that everyone is concerned about are a snapshot of the achievement of our students and to me are more indicative of the social problems our society faces at the moment than anything at all to do with the people involved in eductaion at the chalk face.
End of rant

See this is why we blame the teachers. we get the same old rhetoric saying "it's not our fault" yes there are some bad teachers" we love our job" Blah Blah Blah.

At school I could count on one hand the good teachers. yes most weren't bad but they weren't very good either.

Oh and you can't spell or proof read.

[BoristheBiter]

NCEA is fucking garbage.

..........

Carry on.

I agree with this message.

[Zedder]

I had a look at the process behind the Programme for International Student Assessment, which is where the rankings come from and at a cost of NZ$2 million.

A professor Svend Keiner who knows the system very well and is one of its biggest critics says the Rasch model used to crunch the numbers is the problem. It is only accurate when there is no instability in the data as happens depending on where participating students come from.

He says NZ should ignore the results and compare our countries education performance with similar countries like Australia.

[Banditbandit]

At school I could count on one hand the good teachers. yes most weren't bad but they weren't very good either.

Tell me - what knowledge/experience/wisom allows a school child to make judgements about educational professionals?

I get it that there were some that you liked and some that you did not like. Teachrs are not there to be liked, they are there to make students learn. Clearly, liking a teacher does help you learn ... but as a teacher, I don't care if students like me or not - I care if they pass or not.

So tell me, as a school child, on what did you base your judgemetns of educational professionals?

[Ocean1]

The majority of us in the class room today are passionate about what we do but are constantly hamstrung by the need to prove we can do it.

There is no such animal as an effective organisation that doesn't measure it's performance. The hysterical reaction from the industry to the introduction of any tool to measure learning is difficult to understand.

[SVboy]

There is no such animal as an effective organisation that doesn't measure it's performance. The hysterical reaction from the industry to the introduction of any tool to measure learning is difficult to understand.

What a bizarre comment. Of course we are assessed, audited and checked against national standards. Clearly you have no idea other that your own "hysterical reaction".

[mashman]

A professor Svend Keiner who knows the system very well and is one of its biggest critics says the Rasch model used to crunch the numbers is the problem. It is only accurate when there is no instability in the data as happens depending on where participating students come from.

Those in the know believe that the data is very good over here, well, for maths at any rate. Written and interpretive is nigh on impossible to get meaningful data for. There be changes on the way, just not sure when.

[Banditbandit]

There is no such animal as an effective organisation that doesn't measure it's performance. The hysterical reaction from the industry to the introduction of any tool to measure learning is difficult to understand.

Yes - the issue is not that teachers do not want perfromance to be measured - as we keep repeating, it's the suggested measurements that we don't like.

Think of it this way ...

ACC said statistics show motorcycles are dangerous and motorcycle accidents cost us too much money .. therefore we are going to put up ACC levies on biokes ...

What did we all say? Did we agree with their measurements? Hell No !!!

WHen you buy a motorcycle do you ask yourself: Is this a safe bike? Is it quiet and not disturbing to other road users? Is it small enough to stay easily whein the speed limit? Does it have to much power??

I know I want a bike that is mostly, none of those things - wrong measures.

So - swhould teachers be measured on pass rates ??? Not by themselves - too many other factors to take into account.

[mansell]

There is no such animal as an effective organisation that doesn't measure it's performance. The hysterical reaction from the industry to the introduction of any tool to measure learning is difficult to understand.

We are constantly measuring our performance, but it is not a one size fits all tool that everyone seems to think will work, there are too many variables in each individual student let alone the entire student body. The question I often consider is what makes effective teaching, passing grades or turning out people who can function well in today's society. I recall talking to a management graduate a few years ago and watching the confusion on his face when I explained the management systems of a normal school.
Another concern I have is that everyone is judging modern education on their experiences from their own schooling often years ago. This problem is not one than can be addressed by just testing students more frequently all that does is makes teachers teach to the test criteria and turn away from the opportunity to broaden the horizons of teenagers who have very little experience.
I know most people think that this problem can be solved by just focussing on the education sector but the reality is that it is much bigger than just us. For education to work well it must be valued by society and it pains me to say this (and i know a lot of you will disagree) but in my opinion the ability to kick a ball or sing well seems much more valued than the ability to learn. How many people in your circle of friends could name New Zealand's last Nobel Prize winner compared to the number that could name the first five for the All Blacks when they won the rugby world cup in 1987.
While I was typing this another interesting fact came to mind, during my time as a school student int the late 70s and early 80s only 1 in 20 of us headed of to further education, this figure has risen to about 1 in 5 so we must be achieving some form of success.

[BoristheBiter]

Tell me - what knowledge/experience/wisom allows a school child to make judgements about educational professionals?

I get it that there were some that you liked and some that you did not like. Teachrs are not there to be liked, they are there to make students learn. Clearly, liking a teacher does help you learn ... but as a teacher, I don't care if students like me or not - I care if they pass or not.

So tell me, as a school child, on what did you base your judgemetns of educational professionals?

As a child I didn't, just knew the teachers I liked and the ones I didn't.
As an adult, in the broadest use of the word, I can see what their failing were.

You say teachers are not there to be liked but to teach, well I say it is the same thing. We are talking high school not tertiary, where you, the student, are there because you have chosen to be.

Quote from my 5th form maths teacher to my parents at teacher/parent day " I can't teach him as he knows it better than I do". it wasn't hard as she only taught out of the text book. (she was head of department)

[Zedder]

Those in the know believe that the data is very good over here, well, for maths at any rate. Written and interpretive is nigh on impossible to get meaningful data for. There be changes on the way, just not sure when.

A quote from University of Cambridge statistics professor David Spegeilhalter after his investigation, "I will treat the scores and ranks with suspicion."

I also note Denmark has abandoned the use of PISA rankings.

Bring on those changes.