It's only going to get worse, like it has been for many years. The country is fucked.Originally Posted by oldrider
One might well wonder what lays ahead for South Africa without the physical presence of Mandela?I guess we must but
and see!
Don't forget to bring a towel
It's only going to get worse, like it has been for many years. The country is fucked.
One might well wonder what lays ahead for South Africa without the physical presence of Mandela?
KB's Chief Cats
fixed that for you.Labourvoters.
Hardcore Biker
I wonder if Osama had been jailed for 20 years and then found "peace" and forgiven the US would he be thought of in the same way?
I love the smell of twin V16's in the morning..
Highway Biker
please educate the stupid (me) and let me know how Osama relates to Mandela?
Hardcore Biker
Both started terrorist organisations that carried out attacks aimed at civilians to highlight their cause.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe
I love the smell of twin V16's in the morning..
Chilli Hooligan
RIP Nissan Man Dealer.
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to shoot them.
Weekend cruiser
The deification, idolatry, and sycophancy surrounding Nelson Mandela is nearly enough to result in a fatal case of type 2 diabetes.
I have great respect for Mandela opposing apartheid, standing up for his principals, his resiliency in prison, and well as his gestures to unify a divided nation.
But he's far from deserving many of the ridiculously patronising commentary raising him to the levels of a Greek God.
He was busted……so much so(leading an acknowledged terrorist organisation conducting sabotage including against innocent victims) Amnesty International didn't stand up for him.
While I reckon he was a decent kind of chap who was compelled to do naughty things he certainly failed in who he chose to surround himself with:
Winnie Mandela got let off by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission with what were effectively VERY serious war crimes
Mandela's widow was the first lady in Mozambique, during a time of horrific genocide committed by her husband.
Mandela surrounded himself with the people who have since gone on to plunder the nation as the new ruling class.
Also, Mandela being credited with preventing civil war in South Africa is more than just a bit rich.
If Mandela and the ANC made ANY significant movements in the direction of his mate Mugabe in Zimbabwe the South African Defense Force would have been MORE than capable of total war backed by nuclear weapons and a collapsed Soviet Union.
What no one seems to ever mention is that in both Zimbabwe and South Africa you have about the only two voluntary(but albeit under HUGE international pressure) peaceful transitions of power.
No one seems to mention that in every other transition of power in Africa it all too often leads to power consolidation and genocide.
And genocide occurred not long after Mugabe came to power in Zimbabwe when he annihilated the Matabele people with the help of North Korea.
Few people seem to understand that the battle for Rhodesia/Zimbabwe was not a two way battle between white and black, it was a three way battle for power amongst the Soviet Union, China, and a dangerously naive west.
China/ZANLA won in Zimbabwe, ZIPRA/Soviet Union lost when Mugabe consolidated power and slaughtered the opposition, and the west lost and didn't have a clue.
One wrong system was replaced with another wrong system, and the majority of people have seen a horrific decline in quality of life and standard of living in the last 30+ years with Mugabe still in power.
In South Africa, with white South Africans looking north to Zimbabwe and clearly holding the reigns of the highly capable and nuclear armed South African Defense Force left Mandela's hands tied. One wrong move and it could have resulted in an epic slaughter and capital flight that would have destroyed the bottom end of the African continent.
No one seems to mention why Raul Castro is in South Africa…………he represents the 300,000 combat troops that his brother Fidel Castro sent to South West Africa/Angola to fight in direct conflict with South Africa as a proxy of the Soviet Union at the sharp end of a multi billion dollar military investment to seize a strategic location in the last hot battle of the global cold war.
Was Mandela a good guy?
I think so……I would hope I'd have the intestinal fortitude to do some of what he did.
Was Mandela a good leader?
Leader of what? Of a guerrilla movement, he served as inspiration. As leader of a country I don't think he achieved very much at all.
Maybe he should have taken some top tips from Lee Quan Yew in Singapore to shape the nation.
The way I see it, Mandela deserves to be remembered, but the patronising bullshit needs to go……at the moment, 20+ years on from independence South Africa is a mess….unemployment had tripled, violence is far worse than during the height of the insurgency, economic inequality has never been worse, corruption is insane, and that's with a complete reversal of full economic embargo during apartheid compared with massive trade and aid since.
What I see is one minority group in power exchanged for another minority group in power….and the average person possessing an even lower quality of life and standard of living.
Mandela sounds like he was a great guy(one to one and one to many people skills seemed truly awesome), and even a great leader of a guerilla/freedom fighter movement….but as a leader of a nation I reckon he was poo……and that is reflected in the metrics.
Just faidin away!
Applies to every country in the world! .... Example = New Zealand and the only "choice we make" is the expulsion of the old as opposed to the establishment of the new!
Hardcore Biker
I think that there is going to be violent unrest and a whole bunch of trouble for the current government to come.
The booing when the S.A. President spoke was signalling to the world that all is not well.
I think the whole region will disintegrate into massive political unrest and infighting. With large numbers of people being killed.
Sadly I don't think it will be tool long before foreign troops are there in a peacekeeping role.
There are already French troops in the North.
Don't forget to bring a towel
Fortunately SA doesn't have the same proportion of ragheads as North African countries, and the Christian/athiest blacks are much more peaceful than the terrorists. I don't think SA will see anywhere near the same problems as the terrorist infested hell holes in North Africa, unless more of them move down, in which case it will be well and truly fucked.
Anarchic Wild Child
The risk I see is that Jacob Zuma becomes another Mugabe ... there's already indications that he could go that way ...
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Just faidin away!
Now Hone Harawira is over there picking up a few pointers for his own ambitious future plan for this, our own, Aotearoa!
Forum whore
People stay in power too long, it always goes to their over inflated sense of their own self importance! Most good leaders know when to bow out - little men, don't!
and the rats Mandela had to swallow.........
http://readersupportednews.org/opini...rumped-mandela
“- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”
"trolling"
hey SS, this is Morgan Freeman not Nelson Mandela..
Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. (John 15:13)
BMW Motorrad
I think that's the joke.
If you can make it on Kiwibiker you can make it anywhere.
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