The Bucket Foundry

[husaberg]

Maybe? I haven't had a lot to do with foam type patterns. I would think if you have the solid model and a CNC you would just cut the core boxes straight out ( of steel ). The main pattern would also just be cut from ( what ever material you want ) soild without the build up process like I do.

Funny thing is, I have solid model design program and a CNC yet I still build my cylinders like I've shown here. The reason I did it this way on this forum is to show that you don't need all that fancy stuff to build a good useable cylinder ( also with ability for limited production ).
Plastic beads, hot glue and bondi. Low tec and available everywhere.

Me myself and i would like to see a bit more of the design process esp around the crankcases patterns i have seen Neils stuff on the 2 stroke MX thread. But i still want to know the details arround matching it to the original gearbox etc.

I see doing the patterns as neil does as a advantage as you can see the finish project in 3d at full scale without have to zoom in and out etc as with a Cad model.

[Flettner]

First I harvest the relevant information Yamaha left for me in their cases, shaft centers etc, X , Y and Z co-ordanence. Usually done in the manual milling machine.



Then imput data into the computer that runs the CNC.



Then apply cut paths and tools and do the job on the computer screen long before it gets to the CNC.



Glue suitable bits of board together



Press the button on the CNC, shut the door and wait.



Just like that, well it's not quite that simple but you get the picture. I program the computer to put taper on everything and also can tell it to account for shrinkage so the casting ends up the right size ( casting will end up smaller than the pattern ).

[Flettner]

Finally the gear cutters have turned up, four months from order! Here we are cutting some gears for the Hobb it self, a 12 DP cutter.
Now have 1.75 , 2 , 2.25 , 2.5 and 3 Modual cutters and one 8mm pitch tooth belt drive cutter. ( HTD type ), seen in the picture.

[Yow Ling]

Early Christmas present Flettner didnt take you long to fire it up.
I splashed out today and ordered some Rencast, so I better get off my arse and start building something flash.

[WilDun]

I would think if you have the solid model and a CNC you would just cut the core boxes straight out ( of steel ). The main pattern would also just be cut from ( what ever material you want ) soild without the build up process like I do.

At the risk of butting in with a dumb idea,
if you do have all the cnc machining centres etc, and are going through all the effort of cutting casting patterns and coreboxes from CI, steel, ally etc, is there any reason why you can't machine complete cases from solid, good quality ally, cutting out the casting process? - ie. if you're only doing a one or two off of course, - (probably not ideal for production runs I guess).

[speedpro]

With the latest cases it's a matter of being discrete.

[Flettner]

Yes, no problem to cut direct out of an alloy block. Two things though, the alloy block is usually very expensive ( 6061 T6 say ) and if there is any change or mistake you have to buy another piece of alloy and start again. Can get very expensive.
If you have a pattern, changes are quick and cheap, castings are also cost effective, usually I get two sets done so I've got spare just incase. CC601 cast properly and heat treated to T6 is a very strong alloy.

Yow Ling, you will like working with the Rencast, just be careful with handleing it, follow the instructions I don't think it's a hell of a good for you.

[WilDun]

Can get very expensive.
If you have a pattern, changes are quick and cheap,

That answers my question and I guess the big thing with development work is the ability to make changes quickly and cheaply! By the way, what would the cost saving be between 6061 and cc601 be (say as a percentage)?

Cheers,
Will.

[Flettner]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

[Grumph]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

Also depends on the complexity of the part....for instance Norton Commando crankcases are being done from solid on CNC in Hamilton.
I've seen them and they're very nice, strong...and expensive. And they're pretty simple too.

[WilDun]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

FLETTNER,
Wow! - I do see your point, much much cheaper!
Guess I knew that if you were running your own business then you'd have a damn good reason for doing it that way, I just didn't know exactly what that reason would be!

Basically you are doing the sort of stuff I could have and really wanted to do, ie. if I had got off my ass and listened to myself! - Instead I worked hard ( machining & maintenance) to bring up a family who couldn't tell the difference between a crankcase and an exhaust pipe but who still manage to see me as a 'common tradesman' ! - still happy I was though.

Look forward with interest to your future forays into experimental engines etc, keep it up.

GRUMPH,
Guess the Commando crankcases must be going to America then, - they'd have to be
strong to hold that beast of a crank fighting to cope with two pistons going up and down together at racing speeds and conditions!

Cheers,
Will.

[koba]

Will, you should build a bucket.

[WilDun]

Will, you should build a bucket.

Yes, I'd like to build a bucket but for someone else to ride - not me!
Don't know a lot about buckets, but it might just be a lot of fun, never was a great mechanic though, more into building than tuning.
Too many mobility problems to risk throwing a leg over a bike now and I would just like to concentrate on building my workshop and foundry and hopefully get a lot of tips here, (forum).

I 'designed' and built a frame in about 1969 and cobbled up a special motor (2xAriel Arrow engines joined together), went, when it went, but not often, good fun though and was more rideable with just one 250cc engine.

I was banned from riding bikes in the early eighties when I hit a dog (it tried to take out my front wheel). I went over the handlebars and broke my knee - didn't help the family when I couldn't work for quite a while!

Sorry everyone, for getting off track - I should be asleep right now but I just got up for a while and got sidetracked

Cheers
Will.

[TZ350]

I 'designed' and built a frame in about 1969 and cobbled up a special motor (2xAriel Arrow engines joined together), went, when it went, but not often, good fun though and was more rideable with just one 250cc engine.

Now that is very interesting, any photos and more details?

I have some Ariel bits and am keen to build a clasic racer.

The ESE thread would be keen to hear about your Ariel adventures.

[WilDun]

Now that is very interesting, any photos and more details?

I have some Ariel bits and am keen to build a clasic racer.

The ESE thread would be keen to hear about your Ariel adventures.

Yes, but I guess I'd better move to that thread as I'm hijacking Flettner's excellent thread here, sorry

Will.