The Bucket Foundry

[seattle smitty]

A couple of last irrelevancies before the thread gets properly back on topic:

Re German vs. Allied aero engines, the German engines such as the D-B were generally of bigger displacement than their Allied counterparts, had to be to get the same performance, because the Germans, as I understand it, were using 80/87 octane gas throughout the war, limiting power and range (they overcame part of this with ADI and later nitrous). Even at the beginning of the Battle of Britain, the Spits and Hurricanes got 100/130 (what the airshow planes get now), and by mid-war had 115/145 (the base fuel for serious racing of these engines).

Re Rolls vs. Packard-built Merlins, most of what we got for boatracing were Packards, and people marveled at the occasional Rolls-built engine that would come in because the con-rods had lovely hand-polished beams, where the Packard rods were just rough forgings (of course, for racing they all got shot-peened).

Re airplanes vs raceboats and race-planes, if all you have heard is P-51s and Spits and even Mosquitos doing fly-overs or even aerobatics, you have only heard The Sound, not THE SOUND. Airplane owners never operate those machines, with very good reason, at even half the boost levels of the racers. Which is why I hope y'all can come see the Reno Air Races . . . while we still have them (another bad crash will be the end of the event) and before they also go to turbines and jets.

Finally, I don't know why you bikers and karters would be so excited about your 2-stroke sounds when you have to put a muffler on the end of each stinger. If you could emulate fuel-burning outboard racing, you'd get the pure unmuffled 2-stroke rrrrring!! (Aaannd, we still run classes with the shriek of 2-strokes with MEGAPHONES!!!

[WilDun]

On Thursday, the good wife and I take off to the UK and go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. First thing I'll do is to go straight to the Ryger tent, ask lots of questions, take lots of pics and report back to you asap.
By the time I'm back, I want to hear how much progress Neil has made on the first prototype. ious lap records.

Have a great trip Ken.

[Grumph]

A couple of last irrelevancies before the thread gets properly back on topic:

Finally, I don't know why you bikers and karters would be so excited about your 2-stroke sounds when you have to put a muffler on the end of each stinger. If you could emulate fuel-burning outboard racing, you'd get the pure unmuffled 2-stroke rrrrring!! (Aaannd, we still run classes with the shriek of 2-strokes with MEGAPHONES!!!

(a) This is KB - I've suspected for some time that off the point irrelevancies are mandatory here..

(b) In my youf, I was present at a record attempt where an EMC - Puch ran with the open megaphone of the period...My ears are still ringing. You could hear it from the far end of the closed road - about 3 1/2 miles away.

and (c) I would really have loved to live in Seattle in the period when Stanley Sayers could take one of the Slo-Mo's for a run from his house before going to the office - and take it up close to the world water speed record....

[speedpro]

I didn't run it up the road but I did start a bike when I was only half way through building the chamber. Hoooooly shit - Loud, with a capital.

[Flettner]

It has been said that the Superchaged DKW 250 raceing at the IOM could be heard from the shores of England, open megaphones.

[husaberg]

It has been said that the Superchaged DKW 250 raceing at the IOM could be heard from the shores of England, open megaphones.

My 1954 197 James was 123db at 3/4 throttle open stinger no silencer of any description (it hurt the ears) was slow as shit still.

[ken seeber]

Ken, if you fly this Thursday, you can be here just in time for the classic races on the Sachsenring in Germany. Organized in cooperation with Ferry Brouwer, there will be many unique classic bikes, not just on show, but racing. If you think you can make it at all, let me know. I'd love to meet you there. ]

Frits, thanks for the nice thought, but we're committed with meeting up with friends and family. So close, yet so far. Still, there is "good" beer, pizzas and Malaga ice creams elsewhere in the world. You have a good time though.

Noise. Ages ago in Victoria, on a major river, there was a boat race. This was when the first Mercury straight 6s came out. A couple of guys had these with no cowl and 6 open megaphones. Not unimpressive at all.

[seattle smitty]

Ken, those Mercury outboards were from late-'40s/early-'50s designs, and were cross-flow engines with deflector pistons. Guys sometimes succeed in applying expansion chambers to them, but with all of their surface area those deflector pistons tend to melt with the added heat. The early 3-port loop-scavenged engines by Konig, Anzani, Quincy, and Crescent used megaphones in their early years (late-'50s/early-'60s). Generally it was found that a given engine would make roughly similar power with megaphones and a good dose of nitro in the methanol (say 15-45% nitro, plus blender fractions) as they did with expansion chambers and straight methanol. "Tipping the can" (adding nitro) generally quickly led to melted pistons in an expansion chamber motor. And nitro was expensive, so people were just as happy not to bother with it. One friend tried hydrazine (rocket fuel) in his Anzani with megaphones. He found that you could use half as much (as nitro), but that it cost twice as much, so no real benefit.

Today, the new Italian racing outboards (and I think the principals in those companies quietly follow the various disclosures from Frits and Jan Theil) make a little over twice the power from a given displacement as the best engines from my day.

P.S. Come to think of it, if one of you has a contrarian streak (hell, everybody on this website has a contrarian streak!!) and wants to build something unique, I have a ten-year-old 125cc cylinder from a VRP (Verona Racing Products, I think) outboard I'd sell for USD $275 plus shipping. Pistons and other parts are all still available. Uh, yes, it is water-cooled.

[FastFred]

$400 on Ebay

[Flettner]

The time has come, restore the dyno.

[husaberg]

P.S. Come to think of it, if one of you has a contrarian streak (hell, everybody on this website has a contrarian streak!!) and wants to build something unique, I have a ten-year-old 125cc cylinder from a VRP (Verona Racing Products, I think) outboard I'd sell for USD $275 plus shipping. Pistons and other parts are all still available. Uh, yes, it is water-cooled.

I posted the VPR500 V4 GP bike ages ago I never knew exactly what it was
https://www.flickr.com/photos/teamhe...57629279920188

[ken seeber]

Frits,
I'm not even going to ask you about how the Ryger works, but I am asking if it can be "bolt on" retrofitted to existing 2T engines, eg as a simple kit? You'll probably answer yes, and quite correctly, because there are no constraints to the question, but I think you know what I mean. Would be good if it is.

[F5 Dave]

The time has come, restore the dyno.

Good idea. Idle hands and all that.

I've met one of you, just how many are there?

[Frits Overmars]

One friend tried hydrazine (rocket fuel) in his Anzani with megaphones. He found that you could use half as much (as nitro), but that it cost twice as much, so no real benefit.

Hydrazine (N2H4) is carcinogenic and toxic as hell so you'd better not fool around with it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

[Frits Overmars]

Frits,
I'm not even going to ask you about how the Ryger works, but I am asking if it can be "bolt on" retrofitted to existing 2T engines, eg as a simple kit? You'll probably answer yes, and quite correctly, because there are no constraints to the question, but I think you know what I mean. Would be good if it is.

I'd answer No because for me 'bolt-on' means something that can be fitted without altering anything to the base engine.
But the necessary adaptions are fairly simple so you need not throw away your present engines.