The Bucket Foundry

[WilDun]

I had some bits cast in a local foundry years ago using LM13, as suggested by Flettner, and then heat treated. The castings machined beautifully. don't know how that compares with CC601.

I think that LM13 had a much higher silicon content and I was always led to believe that it was very good for casting but more difficult to machine (can't verify that of course - you didn't seem to have any trouble) but I think that it, or something similar was normally used in cast pistons (low expansion), ie till they started using forged pistons.
That's what I read anyway! - way back.

[Flettner]

yes, LM13, a good piston alloy for car engines. It's about as high as you can go with silicon percentage before it won't stay in solution. approx 9% I think? After that the alloy needs to be hyperutectic? ( not sure of the spelling ) something else is used to bind the silicon in solution to bring the silicon % up to as much as 25% in some pistons. Most cast twostroke pistons are around 17% ( or used to be ). The silicon gives the piston hot strength and helps control expansion. Down side is heat transfer is impaired.
I would have said that cylinders should be cast in LM13 but for two reasons, one, cylinders run so cold now I'm not sure the expansion rate is a problem and second, is't hard to get hold of. I bought some 20 years ago, was told that's the last of it although nower days I'm sure it can be got online somewhere. Higher silicon % wears cutting tools out quicker. I'm not sure that I might have some still in my storage cowshed, It will be covered in bird crap.
Idea would be to cast a cylinder in each alloy and see the difference in power? CC601 is ultimately stronger ( not at elevated temps ).
I might be wrong, just talked to Glucina and they have 80kg's of the stuff, just finding out a price.

[husaberg]

yes, LM13, a good piston alloy for car engines. It's about as high as you can go with silicon percentage before it won't stay in solution. approx 9% I think? After that the alloy needs to be hyperutectic? ( not sure of the spelling ) something else is used to bind the silicon in solution to bring the silicon % up to as much as 25% in some pistons. Most cast twostroke pistons are around 17% ( or used to be ). The silicon gives the piston hot strength and helps control expansion. Down side is heat transfer is impaired.
I would have said that cylinders should be cast in LM13 but for two reasons, one, cylinders run so cold now I'm not sure the expansion rate is a problem and second, is't hard to get hold of. I bought some 20 years ago, was told that's the last of it although nower days I'm sure it can be got online somewhere. Higher silicon % wears cutting tools out quicker. I'm not sure that I might have some still in my storage cowshed, It will be covered in bird crap.
Idea would be to cast a cylinder in each alloy and see the difference in power? CC601 is ultimately stronger ( not at elevated temps ).
I might be wrong, just talked to Glucina and they have 80kg's of the stuff, just finding out a price.

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

[Flettner]

I think LM25 is CC601 one is English and the other US standards.

What about an inline electric water pump? Are they effective? Or am I better to stick to the tried and true mechanical type? Because of my "fluid" design system the water pump is an add on ( I will probably machine it into the clutch side case ) but I do like the idea of a controled water pump as we have the power and the control ( ECU ). Any thoughts?

[speedpro]

Electric is easier to do for us plebs. For the man with a good workshop probably not too much of a problem. I like the rock solid reliability of a mechanical pump. With the bypass type system the warmup is quick and you don't have the pump fighting against a closed thermostat. Getting a good, small, reliable water pump may be a problem as well.

[Flettner]

Electric is easier to do for us plebs. For the man with a good workshop probably not too much of a problem. I like the rock solid reliability of a mechanical pump. With the bypass type system the warmup is quick and you don't have the pump fighting against a closed thermostat. Getting a good, small, reliable water pump may be a problem as well.

I tend to agree, just that it has been suggested to me to use one.

Mike, the fuel pump you use? how big is it, weight, how much does it cost, what flow? Is it an ecotrons unit? Made in China?

[Grumph]

LM13 is 10 - 13% silicon. LM25 is 6.5 - 7.5% silicon. The US equivalent of LM25 is A356.

LM 25's probably the best all round casting alloy. Lacks ductility and impact resistance in TF condition. welds well...

last time i got anything cast it was in "Comalco 50" if I remember right. foundry recommended it as a good general purpose alloy - and said it was heat treatable but it did also age harden. Triple clamps cast in it are still good about 15 years later....

[Flettner]

LM13 is 10 - 13% silicon. LM25 is 6.5 - 7.5% silicon. The US equivalent of LM25 is A356.

LM 25's probably the best all round casting alloy. Lacks ductility and impact resistance in TF condition. welds well...

last time i got anything cast it was in "Comalco 50" if I remember right. foundry recommended it as a good general purpose alloy - and said it was heat treatable but it did also age harden. Triple clamps cast in it are still good about 15 years later....

Maybe the CC601 is an Asian alloy number, I always thought it was American, anyway same stuff.

[Flettner]

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

Well, out with the glue and wood, evenings are getting longer, get rid of that TV ( ours has been gone a year now ), in no time you will have a crank case pattern.

[husaberg]

Well, out with the glue and wood, evenings are getting longer, get rid of that TV ( ours has been gone a year now ), in no time you will have a crank case pattern.

I have drawn up something got some custom wood off cuts that were lying arround at work (can't get amourboard) I was going to try and soak some in some polyurethane and see what happens.
The computer is my problem. Funny enough there is a 100 litre steel drum in there too ......
re the water pump I always liked the ktm50 water pump set up. It drives on a tank on the ignition and sits on the cover (don't worry it pushes out the way)



I posted another electric one on the ESE thread as well as the one you mentioned. ( I recognised it from a pic wob had posted of the TZ400)

bit pricey though, but does include a control unit.
http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Electric...0Pump%201.html

[Yow Ling]

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

cc601 falls within the composition of LM25


-----------------LM25-------------cc601
-------------------% -------------%
Copper-------0.1 max----------<0.01
Magnesium---0.2 to 0.6----------0.3
Silicon--------6.5 to 7.5----------7.2
Iron-----------0.5 max------------0.12
Manganese---0.3 max-----------<0.01
Nickel---------0.1 max------------0.01
Zinc-----------0.1 max------------<0.01
Lead-----------0.1 max-------------na
Tin------------0.05 max-----------na
Titanium*-----0.2 max------------0.03
Aluminium remainder

[Flettner]

I have drawn up something got some custom wood off cuts that were lyingarround at work (can't get amourboard) I was going to try and soak some in some polyurethane and see what happens.
The computer is my problem.
re the water pump I always liked the ktm50 water pump set up. It drives on a tank on the ignition and sits on the cover (don't worry it pushes out the way)



I posted another electric one on the ESE thread as well as the one you mentioned. ( I recognised it from a pic wob had posted of the TZ400)

bit pricey though
http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Electric...0Pump%201.html

I did consider putting the pump there but I may have to keep this space free for something else.
I think I'll run a small sealed off tooth belt drive to the pump, there is a nice space under the engine that looks like it should have a water pump there. If I didn't know better I would say the designer thought to put the pump there.

[husaberg]

I did consider putting the pump there but I may have to keep this space free for something else.
I think I'll run a small sealed off tooth belt drive to the pump, there is a nice space under the engine that looks like it should have a water pump there. If I didn't know better I would say the designer thought to put the pump there.

From memory the Britten ran a water pump off a ford escort or similar....... available for bugger all, plus on the shelf at all repro shops all around NZ......food for thought

[Flettner]

Husaberg, you don't need a computer, just draw the case out on a bit of 4 / 5mm ply and build it up from there. CNC and computer are nice but you don't need them. What you do need is a small lathe, bansaw and one of those linisher / face / belt sandy things. Plus five miniute epoxy and bondi fill. Dry pine is good to use, native woods often have an oil in them and bondi won't stick, I use kiln dried pine a lot.
PM me your phone number again, I can't find it.

[husaberg]

Husaberg, you don't need a computer, just draw the case out on a bit of 4 / 5mm ply and build it up from there. CNC and computer are nice but you don't need them. What you do need is a small lathe, bansaw and one of those linisher / face / belt sandy things. Plus five miniute epoxy and bondi fill. Dry pine is good to use, native woods often have an oil in them and bondi won't stick, I use kiln dried pine a lot.
PM me your phone number again, I can't find it.

No I am drawing it on paper, it is just getting me away from the computer inorder to do something is the issue.
I was going to jig jaw it out on a plywood base.