Suzy GSX650F eating batteries for lunch

[ckai]

The old man's battery has crapped out again. This will be the 4th one. He ride's it stuff all, but has it on a maintainer. Put it this way, it's a 2009 and I think it's done only 9,000k but most of those would have been done when my wife owned it.

I can remember the regulator (?) was replaced under warranty when Suzuki did a haul last year or the year before and I thought that would have helped it.

The only reason we know the battery is shot, is the wife went to take it to Auckland the other week. Started fine at 5am and even the night before. She went to start it back up at the gas station in Huntly (after travelling 40 mins) and it was dead. Ended up crash starting it. Didn't even start back up at lunch time when she checked.

Lights all good. Just not enough juice to crank it.

I could understand having to replace one battery from it just sitting there. Maybe 2, but getting onto the 4th one tells me there's an issue somewhere. My Daytona is still on the original battery, gets ridden only a little more, and doesn't have a maintainer.

Any ideas on what to look at? He's gonna have a talk to the dealer when he looks at the battery, but some of you bright sparks [] may give some insight

[bungbung]

I would be suspicious of the charging circuit - alternator, regulator.
Get a sparky to take a look.

[Akzle]

its a fuken suzuki,
is this even worth a thread?

[Paul in NZ]

Also you need to check the 'maintainer' as some of them are not too flash... I've seen ones that will litterally have the battery fizzing (gassing) continuously...

Take a look see at the battery to see why its poked. If its run out of fluid then I'd suspect the maintainer... Assuming the charge cct looks OK (checked out by a auto electrician), if you are simply replacing like for like in the battery dept you might want to consider an upgrade to a newer technology. Its usually not the physical age of the bike/battery but its usage profile that determines battery life.. ie use it everyday is good - use it once every 6 months is bad...

[bogan]

Starting fine then pooping out after 40mins of ride sounds like a reg/rect/stator to me. What happens when you charge that batt up again on the tender then try and start it?

[Edbear]

Did someone mention batteries..?

[ckai]

Also you need to check the 'maintainer' as some of them are not too flash... I've seen ones that will litterally have the battery fizzing (gassing) continuously...

Take a look see at the battery to see why its poked. If its run out of fluid then I'd suspect the maintainer... Assuming the charge cct looks OK (checked out by a auto electrician), if you are simply replacing like for like in the battery dept you might want to consider an upgrade to a newer technology. Its usually not the physical age of the bike/battery but its usage profile that determines battery life.. ie use it everyday is good - use it once every 6 months is bad...

mmm I was considering this (the maintainer). Will check the battery for fluid. Yeah, the old man said he's going to get a better battery this time. Dunno how much better, but we'll see.

Starting fine then pooping out after 40mins of ride sounds like a reg/rect/stator to me. What happens when you charge that batt up again on the tender then try and start it?

The other day when I tried it, it would start. Checking the voltage before starting, it was around 12.3v. By memory, just pressing the starter dragged it down to 10 or 11v - I think. I know starting drags them down but I have the feeling it seems like a shit load. As in, I thought it wouldn't drop as much as it did. I'll head out now and have a look and another test. I checked the voltage around lunch time when it was sitting on the bench and it was around 12 something.

After the crash start, it would have had 1.5 hr ride as well and still didn't get juiced up.

I shall go have a play.

[Edbear]

mmm I was considering this (the maintainer). Will check the battery for fluid. Yeah, the old man said he's going to get a better battery this time. Dunno how much better, but we'll see.



The other day when I tried it, it would start. Checking the voltage before starting, it was around 12.3v. By memory, just pressing the starter dragged it down to 10 or 11v - I think. I know starting drags them down but I have the feeling it seems like a shit load. As in, I thought it wouldn't drop as much as it did. I'll head out now and have a look and another test. I checked the voltage around lunch time when it was sitting on the bench and it was around 12 something.

After the crash start, it would have had 1.5 hr ride as well and still didn't get juiced up.

I shall go have a play.

Check the charging rate when the engine is running, it should be around 13.8v. Don't worry about the voltage drop under starting, that doesn't sound too bad. It sounds as simple as the battery is not being recharged with the engine running.

[bogan]

The other day when I tried it, it would start. Checking the voltage before starting, it was around 12.3v. By memory, just pressing the starter dragged it down to 10 or 11v - I think. I know starting drags them down but I have the feeling it seems like a shit load. As in, I thought it wouldn't drop as much as it did. I'll head out now and have a look and another test. I checked the voltage around lunch time when it was sitting on the bench and it was around 12 something.

After the crash start, it would have had 1.5 hr ride as well and still didn't get juiced up.

I shall go have a play.

If the batt is taking charge from the maintainer, but not the bike, don't bother buying a new batt before getting that charging system fixed. Was the dragged down voltage when it would turn over or when it wouldn't? Sounds a bit high for a stall current, but about right if it's spinning.

[nzspokes]

Chuck the multi meter on it and run the bike up to 5k rpm and see what it says. Lets hope it doesnt say 50v.

[ckai]

Check the charging rate when the engine is running, it should be around 13.8v. Don't worry about the voltage drop under starting, that doesn't sound too bad. It sounds as simple as the battery is not being recharged with the engine running.

Got it started. Before starting, after I had charged it, it was 12.3v. Turning it on, 11.8. After starting it was 13.4v. After all that I forgot to take in the number when it was cranking. After letting it run for about 2 mins and turning it off, the voltage was 12.2v.

So, after asking questions to everyone that tried starting it, like kill switch, adjustable clutch out far enough, and getting the normal answers, I decided to check things myself. The first thing I checked was the clutch level. If it's on position 1, it doesn't register with the safety switch so it won't start. The clutch lever was on 1.

When I had to trailer the bike back from Auckland, my wife assured me it was not on 1. Never trust a woman. Lesson learnt.

There's still something not right. I remember looking at the dash and seeing the red fault light on. It only went off after running the bike for a little. Normally it came on with the key, then out pretty much straight away. Starting it the second time, it did was it normally does.

If the batt is taking charge from the maintainer, but not the bike, don't bother buying a new batt before getting that charging system fixed. Was the dragged down voltage when it would turn over or when it wouldn't? Sounds a bit high for a stall current, but about right if it's spinning.

I may have been mistaken, but the above numbers show everything at the various stages apart from the cranking. We're going to give it another go tomorrow morning so I'll get the cranking figure then and also any voltage drop from sitting there over night.

Totally with you that there's no point getting another battery without sorting the system. Personally, even though I got it started, I still think that battery may be shagged and the charging system is as well. It shouldn't go through this many batteries and that just tells me the batteries aren't being maintained by the charging system like they should.

We'll see what it's like tomorrow.

[ckai]

Chuck the multi meter on it and run the bike up to 5k rpm and see what it says. Lets hope it doesnt say 50v.

Well I need to keep my head clear? I'll check tomorrow.

[bogan]

Could still be a few different things, voltage test at RPM is a good idea, as well as a few other things.

Have a look at this flow-chart, very handy if you've got basic mech and voltmeter skills, one of two things I keep a printout of in the shed (the other being the bike's wiring diagram).

[Paul in NZ]

12.3V standing charge would worry me if its been on a trickle charger... Should be 12.6V or higher if its just come off charge...

Have a read here...

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motor_battery.php

See this bit...

Overcharging is an insidious killer; its effects often aren’t apparent to the innocent purchaser of the ten-dollar trickle charger who leaves it hooked to the battery for extended periods. A trickle charger charges at a constant rate regardless of the battery state of charge. If that rate is more than the battery’s natural absorption rate at full charge, the electrolyte will begin to break down and boil away. Many a rider has stored a bike all winter on a trickle charger only to find the battery virtually empty in the spring. Also, since charging tends to oxidize the positive plates, continued overcharging can corrode the plates or connectors till they weaken and break.

So...

If it was me, I'd try and charge the battery and see how that goes... If not get a new one and.. Check the charging system with the bike running the charging system should have no issue keeping the system voltage in the 14 to 14.4 range... Remember that will only happen if you already have a good battery in the system...

Hook up the trickle charger and see what happens. Some of the cheapies don't seem to like smaller motorcycle batteries.

[ckai]

Battery voltage this morning before starting, 12.2. Cranking, under 9.5v. At 2500rpm 13.4 or 13.3 can't remember exactly. At 5000rpm 14.15v ish. I forgot the exact numbers as I was distracted by a wild bunny inside. Went outside to get the cat and the bugger pissed off and I forgot all my exact numbers.

Could still be a few different things, voltage test at RPM is a good idea, as well as a few other things.

Have a look at this flow-chart, very handy if you've got basic mech and voltmeter skills, one of two things I keep a printout of in the shed (the other being the bike's wiring diagram).

That's bloody handy that. I notice at the top he says it needs a good battery. With the amount of charge it's dropped over night, I think it's safe to say the battery isn't the best. The old man will probably get another battery, then I'll go through that charge and see what it comes up with.

12.3V standing charge would worry me if its been on a trickle charger... Should be 12.6V or higher if its just come off charge...

Have a read here...

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motor_battery.php

See this bit...

Overcharging is an insidious killer; its effects often aren’t apparent to the innocent purchaser of the ten-dollar trickle charger who leaves it hooked to the battery for extended periods. A trickle charger charges at a constant rate regardless of the battery state of charge. If that rate is more than the battery’s natural absorption rate at full charge, the electrolyte will begin to break down and boil away. Many a rider has stored a bike all winter on a trickle charger only to find the battery virtually empty in the spring. Also, since charging tends to oxidize the positive plates, continued overcharging can corrode the plates or connectors till they weaken and break.

So...

If it was me, I'd try and charge the battery and see how that goes... If not get a new one and.. Check the charging system with the bike running the charging system should have no issue keeping the system voltage in the 14 to 14.4 range... Remember that will only happen if you already have a good battery in the system...

Hook up the trickle charger and see what happens. Some of the cheapies don't seem to like smaller motorcycle batteries.

Good read that as well. She's certainly not light reading though! Even when the battery came straight off another charger, it was never as high as 12.6v. The charger for the bike is one of those smart chargers meant to be specifically for bikes. Not a real flash one but I'm assuming it's fairly decent. I reckon the battery could last a little longer by never taking it off the maintainer, but realistically, with how much the voltage appears to be dropping and how much Dad rides it, the safest bet is to replace the battery. Then have a look at the charging system.