Is there no F3 currently at Nats?

[JayRacer37]

I agree, - a similar spec 125 against a similar spec F3 bike, with good rider, RESULT F3 bike a little bit quicker (as per the lap records mostly suggest), not by much though, espeicially at the tighter tracks like Levels aye Jay.

For sure. Mostly in a straight line though, my first year down there I seized at the end of the first lap as I got such a big draft from the F3 bikes it got a big over-rev and nipped up. I never got to ride a 125 at levels, that was when we had A and B events and the Levels ones were just SBK and 600 with the cars.

[steveyb]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.
Even as Jay has suggested, at the time he and Midge were developing riders, Terry, Gimpy et al were seasoned racers on very good motorcycles.
While our current top 3-5 125GP riders are good riders, they are still developing riders. They simply do not have the experience of Hayden, who is also riding one of the best developed bikes in NZ, commuter or not. I think many of us tend to forget how long Hayden has been racing motorcycles and at what levels.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you, but 1:40's at Ruapuna on 125GP is not too shabby really, regardless of braking performance. I think there is also the case to be made that 125GP and Superlite braking are quite different with Superlite rushing the corners as they can slow down more and use engine to drive out. 125 on the other hand needs to maintain corner speed so brake less, so it ends up that the Superlite goes past them on the brakes, but I would suggest that 125 corner speed will be greater.

[quickbuck]

Yes it is easy to forget Hayden's experience. Spyda thinks he is 28.... He hasn't been that for a couple of years now.
I will add that the goal is to win the race in the slowest possible time....... And yeah I would say that if we had Troy G back here Tyler, Rogan et al would have to find some more pace.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[budda]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you .

Which is why they should get their bottooooms on2fiddy proddy bikes and learn the art of going fast as opposed to riding hard - as you say Steve, the tendency is to raise your own performance to match the opposition, and there is no shortage of that at either end of that field

If we could only get 250's that sound like a MOTORCYCLE instead of a duckfart, they'd be perfect

[Mental Trousers]

If we could only get 250's that sound like a MOTORCYCLE instead of a duckfart, they'd be perfect

Shame nobody does a vee four 250 eh

[quickbuck]

To be fair Budda, Tyler was quite fast on a 150. Rogan was very fast on a 150, even beating Jock after a couple of looks at a new track. Aaron Hassan and I used to have fantastic battles on the 250 until I broke... He did 125s for a time now on a 600.
Marc has campaigned a 250 all winter.... And Roman has been on one too, although not strictly a 250 Production bike.... The trouble is to keep these kids in one class for a while as they all want to get on big bikes that have more recognition....
I have had mine for 3 short years and love racing against the young guys and girls. I'm with you that 250 Production needs more status.... Jake, Bailie and Luke are doing no damage in that department I have to say.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[300weatherby]

For those with identity crises yes!

What I am failing to understand is how the winning commuter bike on its way through the 125 field ( that started before it ) was able to outbrake ALL 125s from the tail end through to the pointy end of the field. A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.

Sure that commuter bike has got Ohlins road and track forks on it ( that are not race spec forks by any means) but its still a heavy old commuter bike with lack of front end weight loading compared to a true racebike.

Crikey!, you gotta wonder how good it would be with K-Tec gear on it, be able to scare the 600 class with it then!

[Robert Taylor]

Crikey!, you gotta wonder how good it would be with K-Tec gear on it, be able to scare the 600 class with it then!

Of course and I venture to mention that for all the hype,the giveaways and the practically no margin stupid deals the brand you mention failed to win anything in Superbike, 600 or F3 over the weekend. So its not exactly the ''hallelujah this is the second coming of Christ'' that its cracked up to be. ( They may win races, if so good on them but we will continue to make them work hard for it!) Much has been copied off the people that spent all of the development money ( Ohlins ) Including the same mistakes. Dont challenge me on that, its a well known fact internationally in this industry.

Ask Ashley Payne about how disgruntled he is with the product, or more pointedly a dysmal inability or unwillingness to get it working properly. Id help him if I had the time and he had some cashflow to help pay for my very real costs in doing so. I have a full set of Copy Tech service tools and a sophisticated dyno. And also, why did a very top local Superbike rider switch back to Ohlins after trying the Pommy product? There is no doubt whatsoever that the product could have been recalibrated to totally suit that rider.

With the riders that we work with under contract we ask them what THEY want. Ive never raced or made up fantastic ripping yarns about MotoGP and other ventures. But I do understand suspension and chassis dynamics and will listen to people rather than dictating to them and embellishing the conversation with lots of lies, including ''the 3 or more countries I was born in'' Get the picture? Maybe more of us just shouldnt suffer fools and what is BRAZEN BULLSHIT.

Its a good product but a tainted one being done no justice in terms of the overall spectrum of local backup . Its more than about selling lots of product here and I believe everywhere in disrepectful open slather.

[Robert Taylor]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.
Even as Jay has suggested, at the time he and Midge were developing riders, Terry, Gimpy et al were seasoned racers on very good motorcycles.
While our current top 3-5 125GP riders are good riders, they are still developing riders. They simply do not have the experience of Hayden, who is also riding one of the best developed bikes in NZ, commuter or not. I think many of us tend to forget how long Hayden has been racing motorcycles and at what levels.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you, but 1:40's at Ruapuna on 125GP is not too shabby really, regardless of braking performance. I think there is also the case to be made that 125GP and Superlite braking are quite different with Superlite rushing the corners as they can slow down more and use engine to drive out. 125 on the other hand needs to maintain corner speed so brake less, so it ends up that the Superlite goes past them on the brakes, but I would suggest that 125 corner speed will be greater.

As ever a very reasoned analysis Steve!

[SWERVE]

Which is why they should get their bottooooms on2fiddy proddy bikes and learn the art of going fast as opposed to riding hard - as you say Steve, the tendency is to raise your own performance to match the opposition, and there is no shortage of that at either end of that field

Absobloodylutely........... Think of the talent in 125 put into that 250 field............ not only a big grid....but hard racing all through the field. Be like a large flock of ducks farting together

[budda]

.... The trouble is to keep these kids in one class for a while as they all want to get on big bikes that have more recognition....


.

The TROUBLE is that so many are told by "experts" that that's the career path to World domination ........ I've said it before, and I make no apology for saying it again, we have in the past and currently continue to churn out some very good motorbike riders - but until they get some battles under their belts, those with the talent will not become good RACERS.

There is a very small, subtle, but fundamental difference ..... for some, if not most, it takes a while for the penny to drop and take the step up to that level. Which is where regular hard competition comes in, and 250 Proddy has that in spades

[Shaun Harris]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me

[Robert Taylor]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me

Indeed, (at the risk of again incurring Billys wrath) followed closely by a CBR500RR development class modelled on EJC500. Where chassis and suspension setup skills can be honed

[codgyoleracer]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me

Agreed, not to take anything away from the other races of the day which were great. The 1st 250 race was one of the best ive watched for a while (in respect to cut-n-thrust), Well done Jake, Bailie, Luke.

[budda]

Indeed, (at the risk of again incurring Billys wrath) followed closely by a CBR500RR development class modelled on EJC500. Where chassis and suspension setup skills can be honed

Chassis and suspension setup ability ARE vital for progression - but to attempt to teach that to someone who is unable to / incapable of giving the right feedback due to inexperience is futile.

A 600 rider whose laptimes vary by seconds when testing is NOT going to make the right progress, is he ?........ GOOD setup allows laptimes to come down incrementally, and inconsistency with the organic component remains a major stumbling block, doesnt it Doc ?

Until the wee Johnnys are consistently lapping at close to the sameish times, improvements are limited to "feel", and inexperience tends to make even that hard to quantify

I'm NOT against your suggestion Doc, only saying that the Jockey is a vital part of the equation, and some good, clean,consistently hard racing will hone skills that will enable him / her to fully utilise the skills of those helping them