Track day crashes!

[Mental Trousers]

You can't and should not blame the organiser unless it's a blatant negligent e.g. releasing 200 riders at the same time.

The rider trying to pass on the inside made a mistake.
That's where the buck stops.

If you keep trying to blame someone else; then you're not much better than cyclist lobby group who're trying to change everyone else except improving the cyclist themselves.

Yep .

[quickbuck]

Ed and Mandy (I think that's her name) are both ex-Hampton Downs Ride Days staff, I've never seen either of them turn up on 4 wheels unless it was Ed's van with a bike in the back and they've both worked at a huge number of track days (for Ed that's almost all of the Hampton Downs Ride Days as well as almost all of the Play Days that have involved bikes, so a good couple of hundred I'd say).

Ash was also part of the team but left due to other commitments.

Play Days are also the crew that run the South Island 4 tracks in a week for bikes tours that are coming up in February/March

Website doesn't show much in the way of bikes cos cars bring in the money.

Ahhhh. Thanks for that...
Didn't realise it was THAT Ed!

I see why they are cage focued on the web site now.....


Agree totally, they run a pretty tight ship....
HD Ride Days were great, apart from one major incident that wasn't their fault either.....

Agree, should not blame the organisers for one persons mistake at all.....

[Mort]

How many laps does it take to know pit entrance is right there and be careful? I can see how if you aren't really sure where you are and you commit that by the time you do realize you don't get much time to correct.

The difference between this lap and every single one he had done before was that he wasn't in that exact same situation on prior laps. He wasn't making a pass at that speed with those riders riding the way they were. It's still rider error but the track is still an issue.

[Kickaha]

The difference between this lap and every single one he had done before was that he wasn't in that exact same situation on prior laps. He wasn't making a pass at that speed with those riders riding the way they were. It's still rider error but the track is still an issue.

The track wasn't an issue at all, his stupidity was

[300weatherby]

The track wasn't an issue at all, his stupidity was

As Kickaha says: Not the track, but STUPIDITY!, the entire incident was so slow it should never have been an issue, road riders trying to go "fast" on a track, have a habit of seeing very little untill too late, then freezing or totally over reacting. Only one of the three riders is actually blameless crashwise. There is no cure for stupidity. When I come up fast on a road rider on track (test days) I get carefull and watch them like a hawk and get the fuck away again double time, I take responsibility for getting past without incident.

There is no cure for stupidity, look out for your self is the best you can do.

[Grubber]

Exactually mate, they do not understand motorcycling properly lke MOTO TT and CCS do. Has any one contacted the company to ask for there opinion on this incident?

Actually i think they do understand bikes. These are the same guys that run CCS now and were a part of the team that run it before.
CCS is much more intense into bikes than any track days i know so pretty sure they would know a bit about bikes to be fair.

[aderino4]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

[vinducati]

Playday are well run.
I would prefer it if the had scrutineering but apart from that they are bike and safety focussed.
The issue is those who ignore the rules.
It is important that the marshalls police rider behavior strictly.
I have seen people having a wee chat all through the briefing,.
I would personally like to see the day costing more, so they can reduce the number of bikes on track.
30 bikes is very crowded, and harder to police.

[Grubber]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

Yea this is pretty much it in a nutshell.
How do you stop someone from being a dick after he already has been a dick. Bit too late then. All you can do is monitor each lap as best you can and pull them aside if they are not playing the game, but in the case of this guy, it would have been a bit hard to stop him doing what he did at that time unless he had been a dick several previous times to alert you to that situation becoming an event.

[FROSTY:Me]

You can't and should not blame the organiser unless it's a blatant negligent e.g. releasing 200 riders at the same time.
The rider trying to pass on the inside made a mistake.
That's where the buck stops.
If you keep trying to blame someone else; then you're not much better than cyclist lobby group who're trying to change everyone else except improving the cyclist themselves.

You I think are missing the point Im making. To simply blame the rider is the ultimate copout for a trackday organiser.
The organiser ALWAYS has to look at every incident or accident and see what can be done to prevent them happening again.
Given there was a clear instruction in that speed group not to overtake on the inside then I see three areas needing adressing.
1) How did the message not get across to the rider concerned?
2) why did the rider not use the available track to avoid a colllision?
3)was this a one off from that rider or had they been riding like that all day?

1) may be it wasn't emphasised in the brief .Maybee the rider diddnt attend the brief. Could short speed group briefs be usefull? Could sighnage emphasising each speed groups specific rules be used?
2)Could the words -except in an emergency be added when discussing crossing the lines ?What would the ramifications of doing so be?
3)How well were marshalls monitoring on track activity? Could this rider have been reighned in earlier in the day or even session?

What I apsolutely HATE is the blame phsycology shown here.Rather than saying -what can we do different to avoid an incident like this happening again ?

Ohh and yea I know full well a bad rider can have moments of brilliance whilst a great rider can for a short time ride like "a red misted knob jockey"

[p.dath]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

This is more like:
Me and two of my mates were hammering in nails. One of my mates hit my thumb with his hammer.

[Mort]

You I think are missing the point Im making. To simply blame the rider is the ultimate copout

What I apsolutely HATE is the blame phsycology shown here.Rather than saying -what can we do different to avoid an incident like this happening again ?

Perfect.

Nobody is saying the rider is blameless either. This "feature" of the track is, shall we say, hazardous. It's right that everyone reading this tread understands how this accident happened (thanks to the excellent video) and rides accordingly. Otherwise, it will happen again because riders are human and can fall in to this situation.

[haydes55]

I just think it's stupid to not realise that a motorbike on a race track is going to try apex a bend.

[Grubber]

I just think it's stupid to not realise that a motorbike on a race track is going to try apex a bend.

Very true.
Quickest way between 2 points really.
I think there is one or two that are just over analysing the whole deal.
My firm point is that the overtaking rider screwed up and it was never up to the others to do anything but what they were doing.
Even racing has a far amount of cover going on, as in close up the gap so no one passes, it's the name of the game somewhat.
It's just who does it better than the rest are the clever ones. But in this case it wasn't a race and there was no need to overtake fullstop.
I hate it when people go to the ends of the earth to find the oh so perfect answer. i don't go out there without the knowledge that it could end in a very bad day.

[bluninja]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

Well some people are technically inept and behind the times...use a nail gun

How about this scenario? You put a nail into the wall with the gun. You've been told to check that the nail won't go right through the wall and hit something the other side, but you're in a rush and do it anyway and the nail shoots through and hits somebody (but without killing them). You think to yourself...."if I'd used a hammer I would have had a sore thumb"