NCEA Results - high expectations a bad thing?

[imdying]

Not sure about England, but when I were a older lad in Scotland and giving a shit not about my lack of qualifications, there was a year long college course that you could take that would earn you enough credits for university entry. Praps they've done away with that as the only criteria for entry to the course was that you were over 21.

They do have those here, for people between school leaver and mid twenties. His brother would be fine though, as at that age, the tertiary provider's head of whatever degree will conduct an interview to ascertain suitability. Easy as that.

[Jantar]

Got the results regarding my 15yo NCEA results this morning (level equal to school cert for us oldies out there) and she just passed. If it wasnt for her internal assessments it might had been a different outcome........

And right there is the biggest downfall of NCEA. It is too easy to get credits via internal assessment, so many bright pupils only do as much as is required to get those credits without really trying. After all, there is no longer any risk in failing. Pass or not, a year 11 pupil still goes on to year 12 the next year. Under the old system, a pupil had to get a minimum result in School Cert to even get into the 6th form. Then he/she had to pass UE to get into the 7th form. Then without a bursary or scholarship many university courses were not available, so a pass there was required as well. With NCEA the education standard of many pupils entering University is much lower, and it comes as real shock to find out that if you fail a course then you can't advance.

Lessons in failure are no longer given so many of todays young ones are really out of their depth.

[noobi]

I finished 7th form in 2010, have been at uni since then.

Fortunately for me, I was one of the kind of 'brainy', 'nerdy', 'weird' kind of people. Although sometimes I wonder whether fortunate is the right word.
So school was never difficult, but to be honest I skated along by doing and learning what I wanted to, not what I needed to. So as a consequence I didn't quite do as well as I would expect. NCEA results were above average, mostly because I enjoyed what I was learning, not because I had to be in class.
I was never pushed towards academic achievement, both parents didn't finish or do well at school. Once I was about 14 I knew more math than both of them. So in our household, I was doing alright so why push it.
I wanted to carry on learning and doing shit, so decided doing engineering was a step forward, I only just got in to AU. That hurdle is pretty big, it has the highest point entry level of any course I think. So it depends on what uni course you're trying for as to how easy it is to get into. I'm doing very well academically now, with an above average GPA in Honours Chemical and Materials Engineering. However figuring out how to work towards something I wanted took me a while.

Having been at university for 3 years now, there are some people who are only there doing business/commerce/economics/philosophy/arts/roman literature/etc because they think you have to have a degree to be successful at the moment. So you dig yourself into a 30k + hole for a piece of paper that doesn't really mean anything. I think some degrees are more useful than others, with much greater career opportunities, but unless you have a passion for something, why do a degree in something you don't like.

If you find something you enjoy doing and have a passion for but that thing doesn't specifically align with a tertiary education, who cares, follow it anyway.

In saying that, I think at least finishing school looks better in an interview than a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Philosophy.

What I want to get at is that no matter how testably 'smart' a person is, if you don't have a goal, you will never try to achieve anything and you probably wont do well. Once you finish 5th form you usually get to choose the classes you take in 6th and definitely 7th form. I hate giving out advice on things I don't have experience in, but consider having a talk about what your daughter really enjoys doing, what she wants to do with herself, and maybe why her results were the way they are.

[mashman]

They do have those here, for people between school leaver and mid twenties. His brother would be fine though, as at that age, the tertiary provider's head of whatever degree will conduct an interview to ascertain suitability. Easy as that.

I, for one, was greatful for those courses... plus if my kids are growing weary of school I'll happily drag them out and set the job hunting to generate some cash for them courses at a later date. If the Vogons haven't paid us a visit by then/

Lessons in failure are no longer given so many of todays young ones are really out of their depth.

Lessons in failure? Sorry, but I find that amusing. Firstly one needs to care as to whether one fails or not. Failing that, pun intended, there is only right or wrong which has hopefully been instilled at an earlier age. Failure simply doesn't matter.

[Jantar]

In saying that, I think at least finishing school looks better in an interview than a Bachelor of Arts majoring in Philosophy.
..

Hey! What's wrong with Philosophy? Its a method, not a subject.
I'm currently studying for a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in climate science and hydrology.

[Jantar]

........ Firstly one needs to care as to whether one fails or not. Failing that, pun intended, there is only right or wrong which has hopefully been instilled at an earlier age. Failure simply doesn't matter.

Absolutely. That is why, back in the 60s, students were taught that if they failed a level, how to correct that failure and get back on track. It was the attitude that a fail is NOT the end of the world, and we have the ability to eitherovercome it and try again or to change track and get around it. Modern students are taught that failure doesn't exist and hence, when they do get a fail for the first time, it is outside their understanding.

[noobi]

Hey! What's wrong with Philosophy? Its a method, not a subject.
I'm currently studying for a PhD (Doctor of Philosophy) in climate science and hydrology.

Ha.
A BA in philosophy isn't quite on the same level as a PhD in anything.

Not all philosophies are created equally.
How philosophical.

[Jantar]

Ha.
A BA in anything isn't quite on the same level as a NCEA level 1 in any physical subject.
.......

There, fixed that for you.

[Ocean1]

For the parents out there - should I be elated that she has passed and just get over my stubbornness?

She's 15. Her brain is undergoing the equivalent of a complete re-format. Be glad she's actually engaged with education at all.

And buy her a present for passing, there's never an age where you shouldn't take an opportunity for some positive reinforcement.

[Berries]

For the parents out there - should I be elated that she has passed and just get over my stubbornness?

Yes. As said above, be glad she is not knocking back the Cody's at the skate park and is actually at school. At 15 I left school with one O level and one CSE so she is way ahead of me.


To be fair, my Dad did then kick me out but hey, everything happens for a reason.

[mashman]

Absolutely. That is why, back in the 60s, students were taught that if they failed a level, how to correct that failure and get back on track. It was the attitude that a fail is NOT the end of the world, and we have the ability to eitherovercome it and try again or to change track and get around it. Modern students are taught that failure doesn't exist and hence, when they do get a fail for the first time, it is outside their understanding.

True, although I dunno about needing to be taught what failure is let alone being taught that it does not exist. I think we all know what failure is, but many just don't care. As highlighted by Noobi (and others), if you don't have a goal, then you aren't going to fail. Still though, that doesn't mean that a person doesn't understand what failure is.

I for one didn't care, still don't to a lesser extent... generally when others are relying on me I consciously try not to fail.

[Banditbandit]

What I want to get at is that no matter how testably 'smart' a person is, if you don't have a goal, you will never try to achieve anything and you probably wont do well.

Not my experience at all .. I have no goals, never have had - I try hard to drop out (I've managed to drop out of three universities and NOT be part of the system for short periods ) .. I suppose dropping out is a goal ... oh yeah. and scoring the next lot of weed ...

But despite having visible tattoos which can't be covered with clothes, being a biker rebel .... tell everyone the system sucks ... people keep offering me jobs and high money ... I currently earn in the top tax bracket and pay tax to support several beneficiaries ... I take the jobs because they allow me to have more than one bike and a boat ... and eat reasonably well ... and because they amuse me ...

So who knows ??? Life is life ... enjoy it as it comes or leave ...

[wharekura]

...Life chances and futures are NOT determined by school marks at age 15, despite what some people think.

inspirational response that made me less stubborn. The household thanks you.

[wharekura]

My Son is waiting for his...

Hope he has passed but sounds like you have plan B anyway

[wharekura]

...As a qualified builder, I have been asked once only for proof of my quals when applying for jobs.

dad in law is a retired builder and he has helped so much on our house we got jan 2012. Redone bathrooms, got rid of rot (replaced joist) added deck and so on. I am a technician but helping him do the builds blows me away.