A question of body position

[Shaun Harris]

TBS. I also have a copy of Simons video and know that section of the video you are talking about but for the life of me, I dont hear mention of when you should actually shift your butt over. On most sections where there are no straights of appreciable length, I do as he says and have my butt to one side, even when braking, but as I have been asking, its at the end of long straights where you brake hard that i have been of two minds what to do about weight transfer. I might have a go at moving before I brake and slowly build up speed and braking effort to see what works. Practice practice practice. Re Simons video, I have found it reasonably educational.

long straights as descired above by TBS from simons book dvd mate. Rolling flowing corners are just that, so arse out the side in advance does not upset the bike any way.

[wharfy]

Keith code is only a writer ( Good 1 but) and all the people teaching under the name of kc schools are taught how to teach hie techniques, SIMON is a GP500 race WINNER Enough said I think. The proof is in the pudding man.

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" Had to mention that as what I know about bike racing would fit on the back of a postage stamp

[FROSTY:Me]

Heres what I'd suggest trying. Its how Freddy merkle put it to me.
-Shift your body to the inside of the turn.
Get on the brakes as needed .
knee out and lean the bike.

That seperates the actions.
Dont worry about being slow to start with

[chucklesby]

Keith code is only a writer

, SIMON is a GP500 race WINNER

what he said

[Metastable]

Any movement on the bike as you are about to tip in can upset the bike.

Get your butt in position..... brake.... etc. Use your knees on the tank to hold yourself while braking....

Just check out the current crop of GP guys.... Stoner (retired, but lots of videos around), Lorenzo, Pedrosa.... etc.... they all have very good technique.

[Premature Accelerato]

I had a chance to have a go at new body positions a week or so ago and while I didnt improve my times I was consistent and have come across a new problem associated with trying to brake and down shift while my arse is to one side of the seat. I had a hell of a lot of trouble changing gears as my leg is obviously not in the same place when my arse is to one side. My question; would this problem be fixed if I was to fit a set of rear sets?

[steveyb]

That is one of the many reasons why that technique is incorrect. Sort of like the bloke I saw at Taupo the other weekend going down the whole straight with his arse and leg hanging out in the breeze. He was 'ready' for the corner as he left the last corner, or the blokes that spend thousands of $ on faster engines only to go slower cos they don't know how to use the HP and get scared.

Your approach is totally typical of most people involved in this 'sport'. Well, actually they don't treat it as a sport, it is merely a hobby to all but about 5% of riders.

You/they will trawl the internet for opinions from others for free, when mostly that is all those opinions are worth, and then try and put something into practice that you have not been instructed on nor have the keyboard warriors seen what you are actually doing or capable of doing.

Heaven forbid that you might actually engage the services of a qualified coach to teach you, one on one, how to improve your skill set. But then you wonder, out aloud too, why you are not improving. Who was it said "Best be thought of as a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt". That is a bit harsh I know, but come on, if you really do want to do it, do it right!

How about taking that money you are clearly willing to spend on new kit and spend it on a coach, such as California Superbike School or someone else?

By the way, Keith Code might not have won any Grands Prix, but he was a AMA Superbike race winner and as we can see by our Super Rugby teams in NZ, the best players don't often make the best coaches.
(I am not affiliated with CSS by the way, other than being mates with some of them).

[Metastable]

Steveyb - what do the coaches teach then? Because on the race schools I have been to, they always mention to have your butt in position before you turn in.... and yes, on a shorter straight, going from a right to a right or left to left, it isn't an issue to keep your butt off to the same side. When are you suppose to shift, when turning in? It can be done, but now you are doing one other thing right when you are trying to do your maximum brake, turn it, etc. Get that out of the way first. It just makes it easier. Actually if you take the Yamaha Champions School, they will beat that into your head from day 1 to day 3.

Premature Acc.. - I am not tall 173cm or so.... and have never had any issues reaching the shifter on anything from R6s, to Gixxers, to Kawis, to CBRs.... etc while riding at the track. Is it just on the right hand corners? Maybe just adjust your shifter height/position, that might be part of the problem. Are you hanging off too far? IMO, body positioning is extremely difficult. I have a hard time doing what I know I should do.

[RobGassit]

I had a chance to have a go at new body positions a week or so ago and while I didnt improve my times I was consistent and have come across a new problem associated with trying to brake and down shift while my arse is to one side of the seat. I had a hell of a lot of trouble changing gears as my leg is obviously not in the same place when my arse is to one side. My question; would this problem be fixed if I was to fit a set of rear sets?

Common sense will apply here. If you have all your controls set up so they are comfortable to use in your racing posture, then obviously for a right hand turn you will have to sacrifice body position until the more import downshift is be completed. Rearsets may well help a little, but the answer is to prioritise what order you do things on the approach to the corner. There are lot's of books available so you don't have to reinvent the wheel here. The Twist of the Wrist series is popular. A day at the track just watching the fast guy's and dissecting what they do at certain places on the track is really helpful. Then get a buddy to video you and you will see the difference in what you think you are doing on the bike to what is actually happening.Step by step you will improve, and that's where alot of the enjoyment is,,in improving your skill. If it was easy it would quickly loose it's appeal. Stay smooth and don't try to go fast. Speed will come as your ability and confidence improve. Little to be learned by landing on your head, except for the price of helmets. Most racers at the track will honestly answer any well thought out questions you may have.

[eelracing]

Steveyb - what do the coaches teach then? Because on the race schools I have been to, they always mention to have your butt in position before you turn in... I have a hard time doing what I know I should do.

Stevey always practices what he preaches...notice the position of his ample torso and the eyes looking where he want's to go...only problem is the turning in bit that's got him fucked.

[Premature Accelerato]

Yep, its just the right handers (as in the end of the longish straights at Manfeild; which is my local track). I will try making small adjustment to the gear shift lever and see if the that improves things. Steveyb, I would love to have the cash to hire a coach and I will admit to not being a racer and not treating riding as a sport. However, when you have family commitments cash is not always readily available so I treat what time I can get at the track as a privilage. I have a deal with my missus (this may not go down well with some and may give other spouses ideas) for every dollar I spend on the bike or track, she is able spend an equivalent amount of what ever she chooses so if I buy a $350.00 tyre, she gets a $350.00 pair of shoes or what ever, even if she doesent want them or need them. So for every track day it costs our family twice what it might cost others. To me this is only fair. My old gixer desperately needs a new rear shock so you can see how much that is going to cost. (end of mini rant). Thanks for all advice, I am listening.

[RobGassit]

Yep, its just the right handers (as in the end of the longish straights at Manfeild; which is my local track). I will try making small adjustment to the gear shift lever and see if the that improves things. Steveyb, I would love to have the cash to hire a coach and I will admit to not being a racer and not treating riding as a sport. However, when you have family commitments cash is not always readily available so I treat what time I can get at the track as a privilage. I have a deal with my missus (this may not go down well with some and may give other spouses ideas) for every dollar I spend on the bike or track, she is able spend an equivalent amount of what ever she chooses so if I buy a $350.00 tyre, she gets a $350.00 pair of shoes or what ever, even if she doesent want them or need them. So for every track day it costs our family twice what it might cost others. To me this is only fair. My old gixer desperately needs a new rear shock so you can see how much that is going to cost. (end of mini rant). Thanks for all advice, I am listening.

We all have a higher calling, and she who must be obeyed is as high as it gets,,hehe.

[steveyb]

Yep, its just the right handers (as in the end of the longish straights at Manfeild; which is my local track). I will try making small adjustment to the gear shift lever and see if the that improves things. Steveyb, I would love to have the cash to hire a coach and I will admit to not being a racer and not treating riding as a sport. However, when you have family commitments cash is not always readily available so I treat what time I can get at the track as a privilage. I have a deal with my missus (this may not go down well with some and may give other spouses ideas) for every dollar I spend on the bike or track, she is able spend an equivalent amount of what ever she chooses so if I buy a $350.00 tyre, she gets a $350.00 pair of shoes or what ever, even if she doesent want them or need them. So for every track day it costs our family twice what it might cost others. To me this is only fair. My old gixer desperately needs a new rear shock so you can see how much that is going to cost. (end of mini rant). Thanks for all advice, I am listening.

You are right on the money there. In setting up and running Moto Academy NZ I have selfishly deprived my family of a good deposit on a nice house. So we don't have one.
Fair enough, a trackday guy who wants to get better, MUCH better than the trackday guys who already think they are better, but aren't!
Manfeild is a funny track. It looks easy, but can take a lot of work to sort it out, especially when the majority of the time to make up is from T2 to T5, i.e. the turny bits. T7 is also where time is made up, i.e. the FAST corner.
The key to setting up the bike and balancing it into and in the corners is, body position, sort of obvious.
But what to do with it is not.
If you have MotoGP.com video pass, have a good look back at some of the old footage from the 90's and then compare with today. The styles have completely changed. The riders now use their UPPER bodies to balance the bike, not their lower bodies as they once did.
That means you stay tucked as long as you can, using your knees and the tank to brace under braking (they do sit up but only because they are going so fast, twice or more what you will be doing most often), stay on the seat while you brake and shift gears, in quick succession, not: shift wait, shift wait, shift wait, but shift, shift shift; all while braking. Then as you tip the bike into the corner you slide your UPPER body with it into the corner, only sliding your lower half as much as needed to be comfortable, i.e. about 1/2 an arse. And that is a slide, not a lift and plonk back down. And always looking up the track, where you WANT to go. Looking anywhere else will send you there.

So, that is how the new riders get their elbows down on the ground and why the older MotoGP riders are adopting the style, because it works.
But you know, it takes work, flexibility, and some balls.

BTW, I did do well in that race in the pic. Second behind Kattenberg on the FZR1000 if I recall, or one of the races that weekend anyway, the wet one when I nearly beat the old bugger on the fabulous 1989 Honda RS250!! (Had to sell her to pay those bills unfortunately). But as you can see from the style (mind you it is a very slow corner and I had just come down the outside of the Spewzuki on the brakes I think after a slow start) I am not down the side of the bike very well and have my upper body too far up in the air. This is the point about practice. It was my first race back for many months and I was well out of practice and yes, too ample of torso. Still have that affliction although working on it.......


Get out in the garage and sit on the bike and practice sliding your upper body down the side of the bike and doing the braking and shifting. Practice does not need to happen only at the track! You will see it makes you feel really racey as well as improving balance on the bike. All of that adds up to faster laptimes.

Enjoy. The bill is in the mail ;-)

[Shaun Harris]

Get out in the garage and sit on the bike and practice sliding your upper body down the side of the bike and doing the braking and shifting. Practice does not need to happen only at the track! You will see it makes you feel really racey as well as improving balance on the bike. All of that adds up to faster laptimes.

Enjoy. The bill is in the mail ;-)

Agree with this Steve, quite amazing what a rider will discover by doing it. Take the time to focus on your wrist angles, ie are the clip ons in the best position for you to be comfortable, any clip ons can be re positioned even standard ones with location pins on them, ( Cut the pins off and do the bolt/s up to CORRECT TOURQUE settings.

[RobGassit]

You are right on the money there. In setting up and running Moto Academy NZ I have selfishly deprived my family of a good deposit on a nice house. So we don't have one.
Fair enough, a trackday guy who wants to get better, MUCH better than the trackday guys who already think they are better, but aren't!
Manfeild is a funny track. It looks easy, but can take a lot of work to sort it out, especially when the majority of the time to make up is from T2 to T5, i.e. the turny bits. T7 is also where time is made up, i.e. the FAST corner.
The key to setting up the bike and balancing it into and in the corners is, body position, sort of obvious.
But what to do with it is not.
If you have MotoGP.com video pass, have a good look back at some of the old footage from the 90's and then compare with today. The styles have completely changed. The riders now use their UPPER bodies to balance the bike, not their lower bodies as they once did.
That means you stay tucked as long as you can, using your knees and the tank to brace under braking (they do sit up but only because they are going so fast, twice or more what you will be doing most often), stay on the seat while you brake and shift gears, in quick succession, not: shift wait, shift wait, shift wait, but shift, shift shift; all while braking. Then as you tip the bike into the corner you slide your UPPER body with it into the corner, only sliding your lower half as much as needed to be comfortable, i.e. about 1/2 an arse. And that is a slide, not a lift and plonk back down. And always looking up the track, where you WANT to go. Looking anywhere else will send you there.

So, that is how the new riders get their elbows down on the ground and why the older MotoGP riders are adopting the style, because it works.
But you know, it takes work, flexibility, and some balls.

BTW, I did do well in that race in the pic. Second behind Kattenberg on the FZR1000 if I recall, or one of the races that weekend anyway, the wet one when I nearly beat the old bugger on the fabulous 1989 Honda RS250!! (Had to sell her to pay those bills unfortunately). But as you can see from the style (mind you it is a very slow corner and I had just come down the outside of the Spewzuki on the brakes I think after a slow start) I am not down the side of the bike very well and have my upper body too far up in the air. This is the point about practice. It was my first race back for many months and I was well out of practice and yes, too ample of torso. Still have that affliction although working on it.......


Get out in the garage and sit on the bike and practice sliding your upper body down the side of the bike and doing the braking and shifting. Practice does not need to happen only at the track! You will see it makes you feel really racey as well as improving balance on the bike. All of that adds up to faster laptimes.

Enjoy. The bill is in the mail ;-)

Could be a book in there Steve.???
"twist of the Wallet"???

Hope you will still coach the odd young talent Steve.