A question of body position

[Metastable]

You are right on the money there. .....
Enjoy. The bill is in the mail ;-)

He's correct on everything he said. IMO, you still get your butt off and sorted ahead of time.... not hanging off your upper body, just the butt. Then like steveyb said - push your upper body out as you are tipping in. Watch the top pros, they all do similar stuff.... dunno how Marquez hangs off so much and still has any feel though.

[steveyb]

He's correct on everything he said. IMO, you still get your butt off and sorted ahead of time.... not hanging off your upper body, just the butt. Then like steveyb said - push your upper body out as you are tipping in. Watch the top pros, they all do similar stuff.... dunno how Marquez hangs off so much and still has any feel though.

The issue with doing that is that as soon as you move your bum off the seat you need to twist your body.
That creates the situation where your legs are no longer in the optimal position to grip the tank, to brake with the rear, to shift gear quickly and easily.
Also, the more movements you make on the bike, the more inputs to suspension/tyres you create. Part of the equation for the fast, and safe, lap time is making as few, smooth inputs as possible.

Just as Shaun indicated, sit on the bike in various positions and set up all the moveable stuff so that it is as comfortable for you in racing positions as is possible.
Also, shift to race-shift pattern if possible. It is not much, but makes riding fast just that touch easier.
And work on the race crouch/tuck. Really surprising how many riders/racers think they are tucking but are not even close.

That's two bills in the mail ;-)

[steveyb]

Could be a book in there Steve.???
"twist of the Wallet"???

Hope you will still coach the odd young talent Steve.

More like: MotoVoodooo, The Dark Art of the Overdraft.

Not hearing anyone knocking down the door, so I doubt it.
I keep coming back to the situation where our riders think they know it all and can learn it all by themselves.
Don't see Lydia Ko, Val Adams, Sophie Pascoe or the All Blacks doing it that way.

[RobGassit]

More like: MotoVoodooo, The Art of the Overdraft.

Not hearing anyone knocking down the door, so I doubt it.
I keep coming back to the situation where our riders think they know it all and can learn it all by themselves.
Don't see Lydia Ko, Val Adams, Sophie Pascoe or the All Blacks doing it that way.

That's so true, and some don't even have an interested observer to bounce ideas off or have a pit stand ready. I wonder if the scholarship would be better served providing a mentor available to club members at meetings than just targeting one rider per year. A lot of club racers don't know what they don't know, and so the the lessons are learn't the hard way. There is an entertainment factor though I have to say, for those who have seen it all before. History repeats, except in Canterbury where the clubs run a nursery. How long before the North Island can produce anything like the calibre of what is coming out of the mainland glasshouse?

[BoristheBiter]

Keith code is only a writer ( Good 1 but) and all the people teaching under the name of kc schools are taught how to teach hie techniques, SIMON is a GP500 race WINNER Enough said I think. The proof is in the pudding man.

I think it's because KC teaches how to be better with road riding in mind and Simon teaches how to race.

I think the name does CSS a disservice as it's not a superbike school.
But in saying that it has made me much smoother and that does equate to faster.

[malcy25]

I think it's because KC teaches how to be better with road riding in mind

Funny, after doing lvls 1-3 (all last year), I didn't think that at all. To my mind it was very much the technical art of riding and operating the bike in the most efficient manner, with no specific direction to road riding at all.

[Shaun Harris]

I think it's because KC teaches how to be better with road riding in mind and Simon teaches how to race.

I think the name does CSS a disservice as it's not a superbike school.
But in saying that it has made me much smoother and that does equate to faster.

KC Himself has worked direct with some of the very best USA Racers over the years mate.

[tail_end_charlie]

Funny, after doing lvls 1-3 (all last year), I didn't think that at all. To my mind it was very much the technical art of riding and operating the bike in the most efficient manner, with no specific direction to road riding at all.

That's probably one of the best ways to put it. (I've also done levels 1-3 of CSS) I found afterward that both my road riding and my track riding had improved significantly. CSS definitely doesn't teach you anything about racecraft, or 'proper racing lines', but they do teach you when and where to look, how to properly operate the bike, and how to position yourself to help the bike as much as possible through the turns.

It's like they say, it may be called a Superbike school, but its really for all riders.

[Drew]

It's all about feel. You either have it....or have to ask these questions on the internet.

[Shaun Harris]

It's all about feel. You either have it....or have to ask these questions on the internet.

That about sums it up drew.

[BoristheBiter]

That's probably one of the best ways to put it. (I've also done levels 1-3 of CSS) I found afterward that both my road riding and my track riding had improved significantly. CSS definitely doesn't teach you anything about racecraft, or 'proper racing lines', but they do teach you when and where to look, how to properly operate the bike, and how to position yourself to help the bike as much as possible through the turns.

It's like they say, it may be called a Superbike school, but its really for all riders.

That was what i meant.

KC Himself has worked direct with some of the very best USA Racers over the years mate.

yes i did know that but his book, vid and school aren't aimed at racing.

[Metastable]

I imagine CSS to be somewhat similar to YCRS (Yamaha Champions Riding School).... it's the old Freddie Spencer school. When I attended the 3 day course, we had 20 students (max number for Miller), there were a few that were newbie riders, some guys that wanted to get into trackdays, some guys that wanted to get into racing, some guys that just wanted to be better track riders or street riders and we had a few racers too. The course per say was the same for everyone, however they structured it for every individual. Depending on the skill levels the instructors would go more in depth with certain riders.

THe amazing thing was that ALL the students could easily handle an intermediate trackday group by the end of the program with the exception of 1 guy.... who was a total newbie when he started. However, he'd be easily mid-pack in the beginner group. It was amazing seeing the progress of all the students.... including the racers. Everyone was visibly quicker than on the first day.

I'd say the course would be appropriate for any level of riding.

[Drew]

I imagine CSS to be somewhat similar to YCRS (Yamaha Champions Riding School).... it's the old Freddie Spencer school. When I attended the 3 day course, we had 20 students (max number for Miller), there were a few that were newbie riders, some guys that wanted to get into trackdays, some guys that wanted to get into racing, some guys that just wanted to be better track riders or street riders and we had a few racers too. The course per say was the same for everyone, however they structured it for every individual. Depending on the skill levels the instructors would go more in depth with certain riders.

THe amazing thing was that ALL the students could easily handle an intermediate trackday group by the end of the program with the exception of 1 guy.... who was a total newbie when he started. However, he'd be easily mid-pack in the beginner group. It was amazing seeing the progress of all the students.... including the racers. Everyone was visibly quicker than on the first day.

I'd say the course would be appropriate for any level of riding.

Was your avatar pic taken before, or after this course? I only ask because in that shot, you're doing it wrong....if it's you of course.

[Metastable]

Oh man, that was way before the course. Having said that, I still struggle with my body positioning post course..... 10+ years of doing it a bit wrong and it's hard to change ya know.

I have a tendency to rotate my upper body.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5T-YLPsV7g

That is post course, still doing it wrong. Although I should cut myself some slack. That was my first time riding a bike (on pavement - did a bit of dirt) post course and over 1 year after the course, on a brand new track. I blew my ACL after the course and had it reconstructed.

Anyhoo - if anyone wastes their time watching the video (not much happens) the film bike catches up to me at the 12 minute mark..... and yes I also missed a downshift which made my exit of the corner around the 15min mark atrocious, then shortly after I pull into the pits. Oh and that's the slow group.... it was race weekend, so they broke the groups into: street, racer1 and racer2. I kind felt sorry for some of the slower guys.... since there were some seriously quick dudes that weren't racers. BTW, if the speedo doesn't make sense, that's because it is mph, not kph.

[Premature Accelerato]

I just want to convey a word of thanks to everyone for their words of advice. Since my last post i have had a chance to try the things that were suggested to me. As a result, I have knocked a couple of seconds off my lap times. I forced my self to practice the body positions on the bike while stationary and then resisted the temptation to go all out on the track first time but instead practiced at a safe speed until the new positons became familiar. It was definately easier to practice while on the move as I guess centrifugal force plays a part. Getting in to position earlier got easier each time and as the day wore on I was able to pick up speed and alter my braking points. All in all a great day, so again, thanks everyone.