Proposed rule changes

[chucklesby]

I flirted with racing a few years back, and while I loved it(with moderate success) , a few things ($$ included) killed it for me.

this debate of "stock" bikes come up every year it seems, and will allways come up.

I'd love to see a stock 600 class.
some ideas:

stock, even exhaust.
race fairing obviously
stock suspension
a basic braking upgrade, lines, pads etc if you choose.
if possible a control road based tyre !! (no need for wets too)

shorter races, 5 laps or something

yes, I know some responses, suspension/tyres/safety etc etc bla bla, but lets face it, racing motorcycles aint the safest pastime anyway.

and at the end of the day you ride to the conditions,just like if youre on race rubber in the damp
obviously the bike wont run the laptimes of a built 600 but like previous posts have said, its about the racing.

[jellywrestler]

Guys, I'm just a lowly club racer but I kinda see the point of stock only classes. I listen to this 'aftermarket suspension makes it safer/better' talk and I just keep thinking to myself:

If no one had it, then how would the sport be any worse? Better suspension simply extends the limits of the bike. Scale back the suspension level and the bike doesn't get more dangerous, it just gets more dangerous to go the speed you did before. The best riders will test those limits, and everyone would soon adjust to them. Look at the Hyosung guys in the Auckland comp. Would they go faster with purpose built Ohlins suspension? Yes, most likely. But would the racing be any better? Probably not, as the best would still win, but the field would be more spread out/thinner due to budget restrictions.


The other argument is that 'superbike/supersport is the (insert more appropriate word if you like) premier class in NZ, so it should be an expensive/high tech environment'. Now don't get me wrong, I have a huge amount of respect for the fast guys who have balls and skills I'll never have, but I cant help thinking that people lose sight that its not MotoGP/WSBK. Who cares if you are 1 or 2 seconds a lap slower than you were with 15 more HP and $6000 of ohlins suspension that needs a technician to adjust it every time someone looks at it? Id rather see (and participate) in close racing throughout the field, with more people competing because the costs are lower. And as a spectator, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the lap time itself, I just wanna know how much faster is than the person that comes second, and watch some good racing. That's what would make me pay an entry fee, or watch online (big ups to CTAS).

Racing is amazing fun, but when you are broke and struggling to make ends meet, is an extra second or 3 a lap really worth it? What if you could be financially stable AND know that your bike is competitive? Wow, the possibilities...

the first rule in a recession is don't make whats in front of you obsolete.
So please explain how you make a basically stock class what happens to all the current bikes out there now?????, do they spend big money bringing them back to standard, or do they thow them out and then who'll appear on the grids...

[sharp2183]

[QUOTE=jellywrestler;1130680762]

Guys, I'm just a lowly club racer but I kinda see the point of stock only classes. I listen to this 'aftermarket suspension makes it safer/better' talk and I just keep thinking to myself:

If no one had it, then how would the sport be any worse? Better suspension simply extends the limits of the bike. Scale back the suspension level and the bike doesn't get more dangerous, it just gets more dangerous to go the speed you did before. The best riders will test those limits, and everyone would soon adjust to them. Look at the Hyosung guys in the Auckland comp. Would they go faster with purpose built Ohlins suspension? Yes, most likely. But would the racing be any better? Probably not, as the best would still win, but the field would be more spread out/thinner due to budget restrictions.


The other argument is that 'superbike/supersport is the (insert more appropriate word if you like) premier class in NZ, so it should be an expensive/high tech environment'. Now don't get me wrong, I have a huge amount of respect for the fast guys who have balls and skills I'll never have, but I cant help thinking that people lose sight that its not MotoGP/WSBK. Who cares if you are 1 or 2 seconds a lap slower than you were with 15 more HP and $6000 of ohlins suspension that needs a technician to adjust it every time someone looks at it? Id rather see (and participate) in close racing throughout the field, with more people competing because the costs are lower. And as a spectator, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the lap time itself, I just wanna know how much faster is than the person that comes second, and watch some good racing. That's what would make me pay an entry fee, or watch online (big ups to CTAS).

Racing is amazing fun, but when you are broke and struggling to make ends meet, is an extra second or 3 a lap really worth it? What if you could be financially stable AND know that your bike is competitive? Wow, the possibilities...[/QUOTE the first rule in a recession is don't make whats in front of you obsolete.
So please explain how you make a basically stock class what happens to all the current bikes out there now?????, do they spend big money bringing them back to standard, or do they thow them out and then who'll appear on the grids...

Oh I agree entirely, and I don't have an answer really. Maybe scale back one thing per season? Start with the basic stuff like exhaust, and then suspension? Then sell the bits to track day riders or on Ebay. Or sell the whole bike and buy a stock one. Might come out losing not as much as you think...

[The Chow]

[QUOTE=jellywrestler;1130680762]

Guys, I'm just a lowly club racer but I kinda see the point of stock only classes. I listen to this 'aftermarket suspension makes it safer/better' talk and I just keep thinking to myself:

If no one had it, then how would the sport be any worse? Better suspension simply extends the limits of the bike. Scale back the suspension level and the bike doesn't get more dangerous, it just gets more dangerous to go the speed you did before. The best riders will test those limits, and everyone would soon adjust to them. Look at the Hyosung guys in the Auckland comp. Would they go faster with purpose built Ohlins suspension? Yes, most likely. But would the racing be any better? Probably not, as the best would still win, but the field would be more spread out/thinner due to budget restrictions.


The other argument is that 'superbike/supersport is the (insert more appropriate word if you like) premier class in NZ, so it should be an expensive/high tech environment'. Now don't get me wrong, I have a huge amount of respect for the fast guys who have balls and skills I'll never have, but I cant help thinking that people lose sight that its not MotoGP/WSBK. Who cares if you are 1 or 2 seconds a lap slower than you were with 15 more HP and $6000 of ohlins suspension that needs a technician to adjust it every time someone looks at it? Id rather see (and participate) in close racing throughout the field, with more people competing because the costs are lower. And as a spectator, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the lap time itself, I just wanna know how much faster is than the person that comes second, and watch some good racing. That's what would make me pay an entry fee, or watch online (big ups to CTAS).

Racing is amazing fun, but when you are broke and struggling to make ends meet, is an extra second or 3 a lap really worth it? What if you could be financially stable AND know that your bike is competitive? Wow, the possibilities...[/QUOTE the first rule in a recession is don't make whats in front of you obsolete.
So please explain how you make a basically stock class what happens to all the current bikes out there now?????, do they spend big money bringing them back to standard, or do they thow them out and then who'll appear on the grids...

Thank you Jelly , I was thinking (as I'm sure many were) what do we do with all the bikes we have now. Also It is strange that we haven't heard from the guys and gals that are actually racing now. If we have no money please tell me how come there are over 20 Supersport bikes on the national grid (most of which are not distributor bikes) and at least 15-20 Superbikes on grid (Most of which are not the latest model , but rebuilt older models , meaning they are getting more than one year out of the basic bike) and it has been this way since the MNZ changed the rules. If there is no money to go racing in your bank account (then fine don't go racing) , If there is little money , don't spend it where it isn't needed on Go Pro Cameras , Folding Brakes Levers etc. Those things alone would at least be better spend going towards your a tyres (which you need) or something that you really need. The sport is expensive over my years in this sport I have been a sponsor of many and I have also been shafted by many , BUT I keep coming back ( I must be simple alright), let the market dictate , at the moment people are racing and in good numbers at a National Level in the two biggest (Capacity) classes , don't fuck with that , at a Club level (and cheaper classes) is where the problem with numbers appear to be ( I know perhaps not everywhere).

[jellywrestler]

Going for a ROOT now,

and I have also been shafted

are you two getting cuddly now???

[budda]

[QUOTE=The Chow;1130680773]

Thank you Jelly , I was thinking (as I'm sure many were) what do we do with all the bikes we have now. Also It is strange that we haven't heard from the guys and gals that are actually racing now. If we have no money please tell me how come there are over 20 Supersport bikes on the national grid (most of which are not distributor bikes) and at least 15-20 Superbikes on grid (Most of which are not the latest model , but rebuilt older models , meaning they are getting more than one year out of the basic bike) and it has been this way since the MNZ changed the rules. If there is no money to go racing in your bank account (then fine don't go racing) , If there is little money , don't spend it where it isn't needed on Go Pro Cameras , Folding Brakes Levers etc. Those things alone would at least be better spend going towards your a tyres (which you need) or something that you really need. The sport is expensive over my years in this sport I have been a sponsor of many and I have also been shafted by many , BUT I keep coming back ( I must be simple alright), let the market dictate , at the moment people are racing and in good numbers at a National Level in the two biggest (Capacity) classes , don't fuck with that , at a Club level (and cheaper classes) is where the problem with numbers appear to be ( I know perhaps not everywhere).

Yep, ever since Masssssty Boy and his mates at the Brentwood changed the rules to allow SBK riders to upgrade their weapon, rather than having to update every year or two, that Class has grown.

Sadly, there remain more than a few who believe you spend your way to the front ........

[Billy]

[QUOTE=budda;1130680809]

Yep, ever since Masssssty Boy and his mates at the Brentwood changed the rules to allow SBK riders to upgrade their weapon, rather than having to update every year or two, that Class has grown.

Sadly, there remain more than a few who believe you spend your way to the front ........

Yip,

As you will be well aware,The "Experts" tell us that the distributors demand Superbike and Supersport and yet outside of a handful of machines dished out from Phanganewy,There was little support from any of them this year AND YET that same distributor poured a bunch of money into a series that promotes F1/F2,Time for the commissioner to speak directly to them again,Wonder if I'll get a reply this time???

Whoops....anybody else here an Elephant squeak????Must be getting closer to Friday LOL

[roogazza]

Good call, Ian !
It wasn't always a nothing, even in NZ...

Lucky generation weren't we Glen !!!!!!! Bloody great !

[jellywrestler]

Lucky generation weren't we Glen !!!!!!! Bloody great !

yip there were no drift cars, motards, freestyle motocross, ten channels on telly, sunday trading and all that other shit to go to

[The Chow]

Lucky generation weren't we Glen !!!!!!! Bloody great !

Yes , I , Billy and Budda would agree , we were all there and in at least my case I was also racing or helping run Ruapuna round. That was then this is now , being an old guy (not that many years away from the pension)I am I'm not living in the past , in my case I love the sport now as much as I ever did then . So yes we were a lucky generation there is not doubt. But these new bikes and riders are something else but in most cases the riders they act no differently to many that have come before.

[scrivy]

many that have come before.

Premature ya mean??

[budda]

Yes , I , Billy and Budda would agree , we were all there and in at least my case I was also racing or helping run Ruapuna round. That was then this is now , being an old guy (not that many years away from the pension)I am I'm not living in the past , in my case I love the sport now as much as I ever did then . So yes we were a lucky generation there is not doubt. But these new bikes and riders are something else but in most cases the riders they act no differently to many that have come before.

Yep, I was riding and involved in running the Series meets at Levels - what was I thinking ?

The biggest single difference between then and now, other than tobacco money, IS the Riders.

SO many of the current crop have this sense of "entitlement", we have to provide a pathway to World Championship glory for them to be happy ...... the guys in that photo were hard men compared to many today, single-minded and driven ...... driven to BEAT the others, no bullsh1t about lap-times and style points, just got to beat that bastard.

Crap tracks, atrocious safety gear and track barriers, evil handling piles of sh1t to ride, God-awful rubber ( Goodyear slicks, the odd Yokohama and PZ2's !!!!) and still loving every minute ....... their modern-day Kiwi equivalents ( and there are currently more than quite a few ) have my utmost respect, and are the reason I stay involved - the rest should stay on the other side of the fence

Just re-read that, and it comes across as negative, which is NOT how I meant it ..... but if you are one of the ones racing for what it can give you ( other than a fantastic feeling, and if you're good enough+lucky enough+rich enough, a Championship or two ) I'm just saying there may be other sports that will fulfil your needs better than this one

[jellywrestler]

SO many of the current crop have this sense of "entitlement",

been to a farm bike meeting lately Tellytubbie? main focus is on whose got the loudest and lowest van and whose got the most Tats.
way different world to the road races, i've said it before and i'll say it again, Asphalt is for Racing, Dirt is for House Training kittens...

[scott411]

been to a farm bike meeting lately Tellytubbie? main focus is on whose got the loudest and lowest van and whose got the most Tats.
way different world to the road races, i've said it before and i'll say it again, Asphalt is for Racing, Dirt is for House Training kittens...

stop talking about MNZ cash cow like that,

Just because they can afford rims and sounds because their tyre bills don't approach 5 figures for 4 race meetings,

[Grumph]

yip there were no drift cars, motards, freestyle motocross, ten channels on telly, sunday trading and all that other shit to go to

And most important, no bloody internet.

If you wanted to find out what was going on or had happened, you had to actually go to a meeting and get involved.
I well remember the group on the grass at levels sorting the ACU between races while the cars were out on track...and talking to guys just back from the US.
But of course that was the extent of our social lives as we were so focused on racing we couldn't afford anything else....something else the current generation won't accept.