Proposed rule changes

[Shaun Harris]

And most important, no bloody internet.

If you wanted to find out what was going on or had happened, you had to actually go to a meeting and get involved.
I well remember the group on the grass at levels sorting the ACU between races while the cars were out on track...and talking to guys just back from the US.
But of course that was the extent of our social lives as we were so focused on racing we couldn't afford anything else....something else the current generation won't accept.

ctas is great, but I got to wonder if that alone is helping keeping bumbs of the seats in the stands at the race tracks

[Billy]

stop talking about MNZ cash cow like that,

Just because they can afford rims and sounds because their tyre bills don't approach 5 figures for 4 race meetings,

Absolutely agree on both counts,There is little comparison between the 2 disciplines other than the motorcycles and if the dirt side walked away,Things would change dramatically for roadracing.

[Billy]

ctas is great, but I got to wonder if that alone is helping keeping bumbs of the seats in the stands at the race tracks

Yea,

That was something I had to consider before backing Grant,But it could work both ways,Lose some who mightve come or attract some to attend the next round in their area.

[scott411]

Absolutely agree on both counts,There is little comparison between the 2 disciplines other than the motorcycles and if the dirt side walked away,Things would change dramatically for roadracing.

it was a piss take, just sprinkled with enough facts to be interesting

A lot of the dirt bike events have left MNZ already, and it is quite easy to race a lot with out a MNZ licence off road, especially in the top half of the north island,

the fact that their are massive differences in the problems faced by both groups, and I am not sure one licence for both disciplines is really a good solution,

I always thought a base licence fee for the processing, and then a fee set by the commissions, and used by those commission would be a better way to split the revenue, someone like me that races 3 or 4 different divisions would pay more, but the average road racer may pay less,

What problems are there with Day licences in road racing? in dirt racing they don't seem to be a problem? apart from the extra processing in the morning,

[Shaun Harris]

Yea,

That was something I had to consider before backing Grant,But it could work both ways,Lose some who mightve come or attract some to attend the next round in their area.

yep, catch 22 eh

[roogazza]

yip there were no drift cars, motards, freestyle motocross, ten channels on telly, sunday trading and all that other shit to go to

True Spyda, but maybe 50 odd channels huh ?

Yes , I , Billy and Budda would agree , we were all there and in at least my case I was also racing or helping run Ruapuna round. That was then this is now , being an old guy (not that many years away from the pension)I am I'm not living in the past , in my case I love the sport now as much as I ever did then . So yes we were a lucky generation there is not doubt. But these new bikes and riders are something else but in most cases the riders they act no differently to many that have come before.

I just applied for the old age pension just last week ! wow !
But , yes I still love the racing,just that I travel now and watch the best in the world instead .

To be really honest, I don't think I ever did any racing for the benefit of the crowds?
I did it for me,cos I wanted to have a go!
It's up to the new age to want to do that if they choose.
Good on all you blokes, that want to try helping them though.

[wharfy]

Lucky generation weren't we Glen !!!!!!! Bloody great !

Love the 44 gallon flower pots decorating the track

[gammaguy]

the first rule in a recession is don't make whats in front of you obsolete.
So please explain how you make a basically stock class what happens to all the current bikes out there now?????, do they spend big money bringing them back to standard, or do they thow them out and then who'll appear on the grids...

MNZ and before them the ACU has been making bikes obsolete for years, alienating bikes and riders in the process at every class and major rule change such as 250 production.F2 to name just a couple

Yes I know..... Relevance....... Safety.... Blabla... Heard it all before

Fact is Joe public to most intents and purposes doesn't give a damn, he just wants to see close racing with big fields

Unless a solution is found to that it will remain where it is, largely a group of hard core enthusiasts and fans essentially entertaining themselves and I am not saying that is a bad thing

For the money to flow in for the expensive classes the whole model will need to be on a more commercial basis and there is still no guarantee the distributors dealers and wholesalers will get involved

Seems to me that MNZ and it's collective members have a few big decisions to make

[Robert Taylor]

Ah, yes, sorry i gave an opening......

Robert, I'd point out that robbing sponsors has a very long history - i can quote you examples going back to the 50's. in some cases it made the difference between eating or not....And in the main the distributors wore it as most realised what the circumstances were.

Since the 80's though I'd suggest that profit margins have got smaller - and yes, it has had to be tightened up. Doesn't excuse it i know but it does go some way to explaining it. I've been ripped off myself as have various people and businesses I've partnered with - which is one reason I'm a poor old cunt...

As I see it, we've got pretty good support at grass roots level still, but the jump to riding at National level is seen as being too big or expensive....and i'm fucked if I see an easy answer.

Yes, fair points, but in deference to your last paragraph why do we put so many Superbikes on the grid?

[Robert Taylor]

Welcome Welcome Welcome mate.

You need to be currently making money to continue spending money on marketing (racing)? or have a brilliant biz plan written up and detailed that displays the plans path to achieve this luxury to justify doing it.


When power went out in Auckland City for bit, Portable generators were transported in and placed to power all back up again, so the spuds got cooked. 1980 Generators/suspenion/electronics/tyres/ ERROL conigan or how ever it is spealt? bla bla were crap compared to today but it worked!
OK yes lots have changed " but again '' It worked.

Our current racing programme and rules work, finance involved does not simply so some thing needs (DD-Your dam words haha) and I am really looking forward to reading Choppa;s tyre allocation limit plan for SB and HOT RODDED 600z) - IF ( Shocking word) you also raced on STANDARD suspension apart from oil level - amount -weight and springs and spacers- ( just idea's) a 12 month budget is a heck of lot more entertaining. Now brake the $ amount down to a daily SAVING per x 365 days is not a bad figure and is more managable to stretch your poorly apprentise or what ever wage down too due to other commitments.

600Z with full race exhausts and electrics ( ECU + LOOM) Motor work and cams and the above, FUCK ME ( Just had to) divided by x days = stupid stupid over heads in today's climate! We are not going to die, we just need to retrench for a bit to gather. SBKS are what they are, but do not NEED to be for a while ( IF ) ever to the current build spec costings.

A Cheaper game with the draw card of ours, WILL always be played more with boys with petrol in there veins that can stretch to it comfortably rather than adding the bull shit finance stress that comes with current enviroment.

You know and any one else on here that knows me also know's that I am a huge fan of the best equipment for racing and here is that word again ( BUT) No $ = No racing. Get back to basics in the trenches and re guide the mass to able to march forward and hey ho presto, there comes the technology introduction again as the show grows.

It needs time out from all ( or as many over heads ) as possible to re build and direct forward. YEP we could go into crashes from crap tyres and crap suspension etc , but you only need to go faster than the bike leading at the moment by 50mm to WIN ( Fuk the lap record) and you are all on the same basically and hugely cheaper.

Competition not technology not finance not contacts is where our sport comes from, how about a 3 year plan of pure PRODUCTIUON 600+1000zzz being just that? 2-3 years from now with some of the current young hot shots on these bikes as well as some older add ins ie club scene fun competitors- locals, and then re visit the rules along with the economy.

BASICS Welcome Welcome Welcome also I say to re build and grow!

Going for a ROOT now, Had rather a CONSTRUCTIVE day

A clone of EJC500 fits the bill quite nicely, as suggested previously but instantly shot down

[Robert Taylor]

Guys, I'm just a lowly club racer but I kinda see the point of stock only classes. I listen to this 'aftermarket suspension makes it safer/better' talk and I just keep thinking to myself:

If no one had it, then how would the sport be any worse? Better suspension simply extends the limits of the bike. Scale back the suspension level and the bike doesn't get more dangerous, it just gets more dangerous to go the speed you did before. The best riders will test those limits, and everyone would soon adjust to them. Look at the Hyosung guys in the Auckland comp. Would they go faster with purpose built Ohlins suspension? Yes, most likely. But would the racing be any better? Probably not, as the best would still win, but the field would be more spread out/thinner due to budget restrictions.


The other argument is that 'superbike/supersport is the (insert more appropriate word if you like) premier class in NZ, so it should be an expensive/high tech environment'. Now don't get me wrong, I have a huge amount of respect for the fast guys who have balls and skills I'll never have, but I cant help thinking that people lose sight that its not MotoGP/WSBK. Who cares if you are 1 or 2 seconds a lap slower than you were with 15 more HP and $6000 of ohlins suspension that needs a technician to adjust it every time someone looks at it? Id rather see (and participate) in close racing throughout the field, with more people competing because the costs are lower. And as a spectator, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the lap time itself, I just wanna know how much faster is than the person that comes second, and watch some good racing. That's what would make me pay an entry fee, or watch online (big ups to CTAS).

Racing is amazing fun, but when you are broke and struggling to make ends meet, is an extra second or 3 a lap really worth it? What if you could be financially stable AND know that your bike is competitive? Wow, the possibilities...

Unless you have been hiding somewhere there is not only Ohlins suspension out there and plenty of people ready to purchase the options on offer. And why pick on a brand that is in fact oem fitment on many models?. If people race those models will they be expected to take that suspension off and fit something cheap and nasty to satisfy 1970s levels of thinking?

[Robert Taylor]

[QUOTE=The Chow;1130680773]

Thank you Jelly , I was thinking (as I'm sure many were) what do we do with all the bikes we have now. Also It is strange that we haven't heard from the guys and gals that are actually racing now. If we have no money please tell me how come there are over 20 Supersport bikes on the national grid (most of which are not distributor bikes) and at least 15-20 Superbikes on grid (Most of which are not the latest model , but rebuilt older models , meaning they are getting more than one year out of the basic bike) and it has been this way since the MNZ changed the rules. If there is no money to go racing in your bank account (then fine don't go racing) , If there is little money , don't spend it where it isn't needed on Go Pro Cameras , Folding Brakes Levers etc. Those things alone would at least be better spend going towards your a tyres (which you need) or something that you really need. The sport is expensive over my years in this sport I have been a sponsor of many and I have also been shafted by many , BUT I keep coming back ( I must be simple alright), let the market dictate , at the moment people are racing and in good numbers at a National Level in the two biggest (Capacity) classes , don't fuck with that , at a Club level (and cheaper classes) is where the problem with numbers appear to be ( I know perhaps not everywhere).

Exactly right. Per head of population we are doing a lot better in what we put on the grid than many other countries that race such motorcycles. There is little need to dumb it down . If you cannot afford to race in such classes then dont race.

[wayne]

250 production, tyre warmers allowed,
tyres would last better, also the warm up- lap wuld be alot safer.

[Robert Taylor]

Its also not an irrelevant reality to point out that MANY road going riders now seek the help of aftermarket suspension offerings at all levels. This because they are dissatisfied with ride quality , machine control , tyre distress or all of that. This may just be from riding on the road or an occassional trackday foray.
As an example more than a few Panigale owners have come to us because the rear end is ridiculously stiff out of the box ( Ohlins and Sachs equipped models ) Respringing is often required and certainly revalving. If our work has helped to ease in a small way a burden on ACC, the health system and insurance companies then job done
So if a road going rider opted to then turn his bike into a racebike he would have to reverse all the work ( and cost ) to compete in a box stock racing formula to satisfy those that havent actually thought it all through properly
Of course many riders respring to suit their personal stats. Why should a 50kg rider on a Panigale be penailised for not being able to make the suspension move, or in the opposite secenario a 150kg riding hitting the bottom all the time.
For christs sake, this is 2014, not 1974. There are solutions on offer and its a market reality, therefore racing also mirrors the realities of the market.

[Robert Taylor]

250 production, tyre warmers allowed,
tyres would last better, also the warm up- lap wuld be alot safer.

Heck John, dont have the temerity to suggest COSTLY tyre warmers!!!