Proposed rule changes

[roogazza]

the simple fact is, a track day is more fun for a lot of people, you get more laps, sit around a whole heap less, it costs less, and their is a heap less rules to keep up with,

think about this when you are making new rules, esp with the 1 day licence, which most people get the first time they go racing, make that to hard, then they won't start

its the same with trail riding for off road riders,

The KISS method, yes !
I know it's a different era but it has to be cheap to start ? no ?
Early seventies you bought an RD350 for 500 bucks, took the horn off, wired the sump plug and fitted number boards.
You could win a national race on that.
So, the new 500 bucks is probably 5000 ? buy the 250 ninja thingy and do the same.
MNZ could probably cull some of the other classes/make changes.
Close it up times are tough.

[JayRacer37]

As the name suggests the "warm up lap" is exactly that, its not a race to the grid, its not a time to "push" the front, its not a time to "buzz" or be very close to other riders...... it is a WARM UP lap.

As far as i am aware riders on 250 proddys are not ending up stacked up on top of each other around the track on the warm up lap ?, and the only adjustment i could think of is the "possible" allowance to run 2 laps at maybe Manfield where lefthanders are infrequent.

Lets list the thing you could add allow to 250 proddy " on the grounds of safety"

Slicks
Wets
Different sized wheels
Warmers
Suspension
Brakes = Discs, master cylinders, etc
Frame bracing
Ground clearance modifications
Compulsory specialised rider protective gear (for this class) airbags etc
Electonics
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....................


So on the grounds of safety, lets add $15,000 to the bike build - and see how the class "develops"

Cue " sarcastic look"

Easier than that - make them race on the original size and construction tyres that the bikes came on. In the case of the Kawasaki, Bias/cross ply sports tyres (Pirelli Sport Demon, Bridgestone BT45 etc), no warmer even close to required, safer wet performance, and the kind of loads the manufacturer expected...Would work out OK for the Hyosung though, it could have racing radials in it's 110/70 and 150/70 size.

[scott411]

Easier than that - make them race on the original size and construction tyres that the bikes came on. In the case of the Kawasaki, Bias/cross ply sports tyres (Pirelli Sport Demon, Bridgestone BT45 etc), no warmer even close to required, safer wet performance, and the kind of loads the manufacturer expected...Would work out OK for the Hyosung though, it could have racing radials in it's 110/70 and 150/70 size.

a spec tyre in that range would be a good option IMHO,

[budda]

Easier than that - make them race on the original size and construction tyres that the bikes came on. In the case of the Kawasaki, Bias/cross ply sports tyres (Pirelli Sport Demon, Bridgestone BT45 etc), no warmer even close to required, safer wet performance, and the kind of loads the manufacturer expected...Would work out OK for the Hyosung though, it could have racing radials in it's 110/70 and 150/70 size.

I've been supplying rubber for the Minge-Ah's since day ONE - to my knowledge there have been NO instances of premature wear and/or riders crashing on warm-up on the 003RS's I fitted

In FACT the first Championship ( run in PISSING wet and HOT dry conditions from one end of the Country to the other) was WON on ONE PAIR OF THESE STONE-COLD STANDARD ROAD TYRES

And if memory serves, the next 2-3 riders were the same ........

[budda]

a spec tyre in that range would be a good option IMHO,

even MORE dumbing down then Scott - the reality is, NONE of the mainstream players makes a truly bad tyre for the wee beasties ....... the skill in getting the right feel from different tyres, mixing and matching brands/carcass shapes etc is part of the learning. Until the pilots undy-fillers are connected to his head and he can TELL whats happening between his legs, all the adjustable boingers and clickers in the world are superfluous .... that's one of the best things about this Class, they have to learn to ride

[scott411]

even MORE dumbing down then Scott - the reality is, NONE of the mainstream players makes a truly bad tyre for the wee beasties ....... the skill in getting the right feel from different tyres, mixing and matching brands/carcass shapes etc is part of the learning. Until the pilots undy-fillers are connected to his head and he can TELL whats happening between his legs, all the adjustable boingers and clickers in the world are superfluous .... that's one of the best things about this Class, they have to learn to ride

fair enough, and i would take your advice on the matter as gospel, thought a better deal for every racer may have come about, but it also may create more issues than it will solve,

[budda]

fair enough, and i would take your advice on the matter as gospel, thought a better deal for every racer may have come about, but it also may create more issues than it will solve,

Trust me, the only one getting a "better deal" with Control tyres is usually the Promoter!!!!!!

[Billy]

As the name suggests the "warm up lap" is exactly that, its not a race to the grid, its not a time to "push" the front, its not a time to "buzz" or be very close to other riders...... it is a WARM UP lap.

As far as i am aware riders on 250 proddys are not ending up stacked up on top of each other around the track on the warm up lap ?, and the only adjustment i could think of is the "possible" allowance to run 2 laps at maybe Manfield where lefthanders are infrequent.

Lets list the things you could add or allow to 250 proddy " on the grounds of safety"

Slicks
Wets
Different sized wheels
Warmers
Suspension
Brakes = Discs, master cylinders, etc
Frame bracing
Ground clearance modifications
Compulsory specialised rider protective gear (for this class) airbags etc
Electonics
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah.....................


So on the grounds of safety, lets add $15,000 to the bike build - and see how the class "develops"

Cue " sarcastic look"

It scares me that I have an email with recommended changes to the class received about this time last year,That is not to far removed from the list you have there......Superlite anybody????

[budda]

It scares me that I have an email with recommended changes to the class received about this time last year,That is not to far removed from the list you have there......Superlite anybody????

Wonder if I could guess who its from .....

[eelracing]

been to a farm bike meeting lately,way different world to the road races, i've said it before and i'll say it again, Asphalt is for Racing, Dirt is for House Training kittens...

It's your loss if you truly believe that.

I can take three bikes (total worth less than a 2nd hand 250 roadrace bike)and get in 3 practices and 15 races in a day at a VMX meet...if the body can handle it.
All for the princely sum of $70 entry and less than 20 litres of mixed fuel.

Lining up at the start and racing fellow reprobates and talking shit afterwards is no different than racing on tarmac,except no waiting all day for your next race and a superior bang for buck all round.

[codgyoleracer]

It's your loss if you truly believe that.

I can take three bikes (total worth less than a 2nd hand 250 roadrace bike)and get in 3 practices and 15 races in a day at a VMX meet...if the body can handle it.
All for the princely sum of $70 entry and less than 20 litres of mixed fuel.

Lining up at the start and racing fellow reprobates and talking shit afterwards is no different than racing on tarmac,except no waiting all day for your next race and a superior bang for buck all round.

Yep, sounds like a fun day out to me!. Tarmac arenas are always going to be more costly simply due to the infrastructure involved for the facilities, - nevertheless doin it in the dirt rates just as highly for me on the fun factor scale ( i just wish i was better at it )

[budda]

Yep, sounds like a fun day out to me!. Tarmac arenas are always going to be more costly simply due to the infrastructure involved for the facilities, - nevertheless doin it in the dirt rates just as highly for me on the fun factor scale ( i just wish i was better at it )

Anybody on here want an SC500 then, equally as evil on either surface ........

Finally come to the realisation that I'll never live long enough to finish 'em all, so she's gotta go

[jasonu]

Guys, I'm just a lowly club racer but I kinda see the point of stock only classes. I listen to this 'aftermarket suspension makes it safer/better' talk and I just keep thinking to myself:

If no one had it, then how would the sport be any worse? Better suspension simply extends the limits of the bike. Scale back the suspension level and the bike doesn't get more dangerous, it just gets more dangerous to go the speed you did before. The best riders will test those limits, and everyone would soon adjust to them. Look at the Hyosung guys in the Auckland comp. Would they go faster with purpose built Ohlins suspension? Yes, most likely. But would the racing be any better? Probably not, as the best would still win, but the field would be more spread out/thinner due to budget restrictions.


The other argument is that 'superbike/supersport is the (insert more appropriate word if you like) premier class in NZ, so it should be an expensive/high tech environment'. Now don't get me wrong, I have a huge amount of respect for the fast guys who have balls and skills I'll never have, but I cant help thinking that people lose sight that its not MotoGP/WSBK. Who cares if you are 1 or 2 seconds a lap slower than you were with 15 more HP and $6000 of ohlins suspension that needs a technician to adjust it every time someone looks at it? Id rather see (and participate) in close racing throughout the field, with more people competing because the costs are lower. And as a spectator, I couldn't give a flying fuck about the lap time itself, I just wanna know how much faster is than the person that comes second, and watch some good racing. That's what would make me pay an entry fee, or watch online (big ups to CTAS).

Racing is amazing fun, but when you are broke and struggling to make ends meet, is an extra second or 3 a lap really worth it? What if you could be financially stable AND know that your bike is competitive? Wow, the possibilities...

Three words for you my man. GO BUCKET RACING.

[Robert Taylor]

even MORE dumbing down then Scott - the reality is, NONE of the mainstream players makes a truly bad tyre for the wee beasties ....... the skill in getting the right feel from different tyres, mixing and matching brands/carcass shapes etc is part of the learning. Until the pilots undy-fillers are connected to his head and he can TELL whats happening between his legs, all the adjustable boingers and clickers in the world are superfluous .... that's one of the best things about this Class, they have to learn to ride

No one is arguing about that but as they progress to the classes that have adjustable suspension and far more sensitivity ( standard on the bikes )they need to learn something inbetween that will instil same, and in a non threatening way. Thats why the suggestion has been made of an EJC500 clone class, fitted with affordable adjustable suspension and decent grip level control tyres.

You could of course from here in an insignificant part of the world insist that the factories start making large capacity bikes again with this flexible non adjustable suspension. Just for NZ as we will have so much influence and to satisfy the stone age mentality that a number of people have

[Robert Taylor]

for god sake Robert, lets keep this to the facts, since the Greens have never been in goverment,

the simple fact is, a track day is more fun for a lot of people, you get more laps, sit around a whole heap less, it costs less, and their is a heap less rules to keep up with,

think about this when you are making new rules, esp with the 1 day licence, which most people get the first time they go racing, make that to hard, then they won't start

its the same with trail riding for off road riders,

They have been ''in Government'' Remember the anti smacking bill that was brokered? Morons like the Greens are helping to dumb down society and its attitudes so their poisonous influence is relevant. MMP should never have happened.

But yes I agree with the simplicity. Funny thing is though Scott we get to upspec a lot of track day bikes because the riders work out why they are burning tyres and understeering off the turns etc. Explain that?

MX : I personally think that MX has suffered because we have deviated too far from the natural terrain tracks from years past.