Proposed rule changes

[budda]

It's fark all to do with sacrifices. After food, heating, petrol, child-care, electricity and rent (largely paid to the dads army generation who have a bloody cheek talking about "entitlement" after flogging of most of their country's assetts and accruing large debts for the current generation to pay), most employees have lot less disposable income than back in nineteencanteen. Our sport must make some changes if you want them to spend what little money they have left on motorcycle racing. I'm not saying all classes, I'm not saying ban Ohlins, the greens, my mate Hone nor smacking brats but some sensible cost savings in some classes wouldn't be stupid.


I believe it's more to do with money and taking time off the multiple jobs many have. Put simply, for the majority of club racers, the Nationals requires too much commitment for too little return.


I'm sure that after working hard all week and being left without much disposable income, the knob-jockies would tell dad's army that they're very aware that life isn't fair.

Oh DEAR - all that Prozac must have made me clean forget the 3 paid jobs and all the homers I had to do to finish, in the main, mid-pack ( with the odd success thrown in as a carrot )

I raced a brand-new RM, a front 3 A grade stockcar, drank like a loon AND ran the worlds most expensive girlfriend on $27 a week before tax. An average tradesman back then was on a smidge over $40 - so yes, this fossil knows what it takes to continue doing what you love

OH, yes we DID have telephones, electricity, Landlords and supermarkets back then - just didn't ( well, COULDNT )waste the race budget on cellphones, Ipads, computers, cameras etc etc

The more things change, the more they stay the same ........

[scrivy]

So way off topic now........

But............ it reminded me of a poll I did way back in 2009 as to why some don't do the Nats.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-the-Nationals

Interesting, I wonder if it's the same now with the economy still shite......

[budda]

It's fark all to do with sacrifices. Our sport must make some changes if you want them to spend what little money they have left on motorcycle racing. I'm not saying all classes, I'm not saying ban Ohlins, the greens, my mate Hone nor smacking brats but some sensible cost savings in some classes wouldn't be stupid.


.

I agree 100% that our SPORT ( 'cos that's what it is ) is not inexpensive ........ but can someone please explain why, when my Commission changed the rules to allow low-cost versions of both 600's and 1000's, Competitors voted with their feet and stayed the hell away ? One guy on a litrebike even wrote in complaining that he would have entered SuperStock1000 if only we allowed him to put a full exhaust on his bike ........... WTF

If the cost of competing is negating any enjoyment you're due, can I suggest Buckets OR 250 Production ( designed from day ONE to be a low start-up and low running cost Class, but now awash with people demanding extra spending be mandated - go figure)

[jellywrestler]

So way off topic now........

But............ it reminded me of a poll I did way back in 2009 as to why some don't do the Nats.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...-the-Nationals

Interesting, I wonder if it's the same now with the economy still shite......

yip and how accurate are polls, take a look at how many people in it are not even involved in road racing or guys that say it's too expensive can't get time off work yet have spent every spare minute of their life getting themselves to the track for over twenty years (you know who that one is scrivy)
fact is while one shouldn't settle on what we've got there certainally hasn't been the big drop in numbers in any class due to these facts. machines getting ou t of date and hard to find when has had a wee impact in the odd area.

[Billy]

In a few words ''abundant awareness of all the niggers in the woodpile''.

If this develops further due process will be followed and the concept is / has been tested and opinions sought to this point.

But didn't you say that somebody within MNZ was already aware of this project when you tested it at Taupo? If so could you please advise who that was,Cause I questioned the President and he informed me that the board members he approached,Claimed to know nothing about it and I know the office were unaware,Care to name them??????

[codgyoleracer]

I agree 100% that our SPORT ( 'cos that's what it is ) is not inexpensive ........ but can someone please explain why, when my Commission changed the rules to allow low-cost versions of both 600's and 1000's, Competitors voted with their feet and stayed the hell away ? One guy on a litrebike even wrote in complaining that he would have entered SuperStock1000 if only we allowed him to put a full exhaust on his bike ........... WTF

If the cost of competing is negating any enjoyment you're due, can I suggest Buckets OR 250 Production ( designed from day ONE to be a low start-up and low running cost Class, but now awash with people demanding extra spending be mandated - go figure)

As I posted previously on here somewhere, IMO It was a mistake to try and introduce/run a class within class in the first place.
My understanding is that there were pressures from a number of angles to not move to a single (stocktype) class only, - so instead a "lets sit on the fence approach" prevailed with the half arsed class within a class idea. This was sold to us on the basis that "we'll let the competitors decide"

The class within class decision made the new stock-class a dead-duck before it even had a chance to ever get going - and the ones that allowed it too happen knew that from the very beginning with political claptrap as usual winning the day.

Its not that hard to work out that any competitor with half a brain would obviously rather continue on with whats sitting in their shed already...........there was never going to be enough new riders to establish the class, and on top of that why would an existing competitor want to switch and invest in a new class when its to be combined within the same field as higher spec bikes ? - Theres is a pretty good chance you'll get lost on the midfield pack and which simply comes across as being less prestigious for riders, spectators and their sponsors.

As i say, whomever proposed the idea - already knew the outcome from the beginning. And to claim that the classes failure was because "the riders decided with their feet and wallets not to support it" is delusional.

[budda]

As I posted previously on here somewhere, IMO It was a mistake to try and introduce/run a class within class in the first place.
My understanding is that there were pressures from a number of angles to not move to a single (stocktype) class only, - so instead a "lets sit on the fence approach" prevailed with the half arsed class within a class idea. This was sold to us on the basis that "we'll let the competitors decide"

The class within class decision made the new stock-class a dead-duck before it even had a chance to ever get going - and the ones that allowed it too happen knew that from the very beginning with political claptrap as usual winning the day.

Its not that hard to work out that any competitor with half a brain would obviously rather continue on with whats sitting in their shed already...........there was never going to be enough new riders to establish the class, and on top of that why would an existing competitor want to switch and invest in a new class when its to be combined within the same field as higher spec bikes ? - Theres is a pretty good chance you'll get lost on the midfield pack and which simply comes across as being less prestigious for riders, spectators and their sponsors.

As i say, whomever proposed the idea - already knew the outcome from the beginning. And to claim that the classes failure was because "the riders decided with their feet and wallets not to support it" is delusional.

Seems you've got the other half of my one-eyed rose-pink glasses

When riders "demand" a set of rules, quoting cost as the reason for it, and then decline to enter saying you wouldn't let us spend enough, what exactly is to be learnt Glenn ?

If you had customers lined up for, lets say a propagating pad for 19.95, saying that's all they could afford to pay, you had 'em made and no bugger bought them because they really wanted the upmarket model, but didn't buy THEM EITHER, how would you proceed ?

For the record, I voted against the idea of combined Classes, but was outnumbered

[RobGassit]

Seems you've got the other half of my one-eyed rose-pink glasses

When riders "demand" a set of rules, quoting cost as the reason for it, and then decline to enter saying you wouldn't let us spend enough, what exactly is to be learnt Glenn ?

If you had customers lined up for, lets say a propagating pad for 19.95, saying that's all they could afford to pay, you had 'em made and no bugger bought them because they really wanted the upmarket model, but didn't buy THEM EITHER, how would you proceed

For the record, I voted against the idea of combined Classes, but was outnumbered

I had one of those propagating pads when I was a young fella. Did a fair bit of propagating in it too as I remember..

[Tony.OK]

Seems you've got the other half of my one-eyed rose-pink glasses

When riders "demand" a set of rules, quoting cost as the reason for it, and then decline to enter saying you wouldn't let us spend enough, what exactly is to be learnt Glenn ?

If you had customers lined up for, lets say a propagating pad for 19.95, saying that's all they could afford to pay, you had 'em made and no bugger bought them because they really wanted the upmarket model, but didn't buy THEM EITHER, how would you proceed ?

For the record, I voted against the idea of combined Classes, but was outnumbered

And it just so happened that NZ finally started feeling the recession at that same time........I'd just bought the new CBR1000 and prepped it for the Superstock class when my work cut us down to 4 day weeks for six months, had a potential Aus sponsor keen too, trouble was I made the bad decision of ticking the bike up which pretty much cocked us up for a couple of years financially.
Another point some may worry about is travelling alone, many Club guys don't have a crew and for me, if I'dve done the Nats it would've been on my own, bit of a daunting thing for a newbie, more so if bike or rider got damaged.
Maybe I just didn't want it bad enough? The Mrs would've let me get financially buried, but at some point common sense prevails when starting racing later in life.

[budda]

I had one of those propagating pads when I was a young fella. Did a fair bit of propagating in it too as I remember..

hard wood and hormone gel ? Or layering ?

[codgyoleracer]

Seems you've got the other half of my one-eyed rose-pink glasses

When riders "demand" a set of rules, quoting cost as the reason for it, and then decline to enter saying you wouldn't let us spend enough, what exactly is to be learnt Glenn ?

If you had customers lined up for, lets say a propagating pad for 19.95, saying that's all they could afford to pay, you had 'em made and no bugger bought them because they really wanted the upmarket model, but didn't buy THEM EITHER, how would you proceed ?

For the record, I voted against the idea of combined Classes, but was outnumbered

The glasses are optional :-)

There is of course plenty of arguments against "simpler bikes", but to attempt to introduce such a class with a well established alternative already in place was always going to be tough.

Regarding your propgation pad scenario: The answer of course is do the research properly before you commit to the business plan / production. Correct research virtually eliminates the risk of failure. Redpath of course must consider our competitors products that take a portion of sales from any product line , MNZ on the other hand have no competition and " set" both the terms and the rules................

[The Chow]

hard wood and hormone gel ? Or layering ?

I just be surfing the web for some Ninja 250 go faster goodies and thought man there interesting tuning info plus is some things like cams , slipper clutches , Primary Drive gear , Emulators for Forks , Thought wow may as well go production racing , you are never going to be punished anyway , so may as well throw it all in and go racing.

[budda]

The glasses are optional :-)

There is of course plenty of arguments against "simpler bikes", but to attempt to introduce such a class with a well established alternative already in place was always going to be tough.

Regarding your propgation pad scenario: The answer of course is do the research properly before you commit to the business plan / production. Correct research virtually eliminates the risk of failure. Redpath of course must consider our competitors products that take a portion of sales from any product line , MNZ on the other hand have no competition and " set" both the terms and the rules................

What was that, waaaay in the distance ...... aaah, the sound of someone with his hand up ?

[steveyb]

MNZ on the other hand have no competition and " set" both the terms and the rules................

Well, no direct competition, but ample in-direct competition, such as those issues mentioned by Tony.OK and all the other avenues for spend of $ and Hrs.

WRG to the Super-classes, in some respects perhaps the road racing market in NZ is still quite 'immature' in that it has basically been a group of enthusiasts for many years simply getting on and doing it as they see fit.
There were small periods in the past where things were much more upscale of course (Marlboro series etc), but we are only now beginning to move into a period where we see more teams and more people investing in the infrastructure that makes the sport look professional (regardless of whether it is or not) to outside observers.
So, perhaps the market was not mature enough at the time to allow both choices to co-exist. Reminds one of young children; if you offer them too many choices they will go crazy!
Are we actually any better off now though? I do think there is a major ego issue in that: What is wrong with running in the middle of the pack of bikes on a Superstock bike if that is what you can afford/have ability to race? Makes no difference to the crowd, really, does it? But if the lower costs (perceived vs real) produce a 25%, 50% increase in grid numbers, isn't that just good? 25-50% is probably very optimistic though.....

[budda]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1130683478]The glasses are optional :-)

Correct research virtually eliminates the risk of failure. QUOTE]

The status of the research ( "correct" or cluster hoohah ) is often decided / dictated by the efficacy of the decision .... many a bad decision has been made with good information, and many a good 'un made against the evidence provided by the masses Glenn

The key is to get more right than not , and to build on the right ones .... obviously you're keen

Look forward to seeing your detailed proposal to move the Sport, as a whole, forward