Ah "silent T' you're the man for me!

[carbonhed]

Latest poll results show the Greens and Winston First's secret talks with Krim.con have backfired horrendously. Everything that fat bastard touches just turns to shit.

One News Poll

[Banditbandit]

Terms like 'middle class' etc come from a bygone era and don't really apply any more. Or at least the supposed definitions don't.. Besides we don't really have enough 'Gentry' (people who don't need to work) to throw up a really good one...

Social classes are really groups of like minded people that seek each others company and a tendancy to marry only in the same group with very little movement between groups. He is definately NOT working class. His education and income have moved him into the ruling elite...

Frankly hes a bit of an arse. His worst feature is that he does not look honest or open and its all down hill from there..

Hang on - can't you see the contradictions between what you say above and what you say below ???

One of the roots of the idea of egalitarian NZ was that a lot of the people who came here did so to escape the limitations of the english class system (thats the old system). You might think that it was mainly upwardly asperational working class but there were a lot of minor gentry and upper middle class people as well. They actually wanted to work as Victorian ideals equated respectability with work. In the old system that meant the clergy, military or public service. Indeed they had to expand the types of jobs suitable for the upper classes to accomodate the numbers that had to/wanted to work. Remember that surgeons were basically barbers that cut a tad closer to the bone at one point.

So basically there were the upper or genteel class, titled or non titled land owning classes that didnt 'work' as such... The middle classes who owned property and worked, decent people who were trades people etc who worked but didnt own property and disreputables who didnt or seldom worked (unless it was as public prostitutes and the like) and didnt own anything...

By the mid 1800's there was a lot of cross class movement. Britain had a lot more non titled aristocrats that owned land (in Europe nearly everyone that owned a lot of land had a title). Britain never had the equivalent of the french revolution so the grand estates broke up later or at least went into decline. The lower status gentility had to work as their capital was no longer enough to survive on alone and the upper middle classes accumulated enough capital to indulge in genteel pursuits...

Anyway - as late as the 1940's people immigrated here after seeing pictures of 'working mens clubs' with cars parked outside. ie the usual boundaries were never established here due as much as anything as the lack of numbers to become a self sustaining 'community'.

Since the 1940's however we have seen the rise of a politically aware and educated ruling class. They tend to intermarry and are close to forming a ruling elite that feels entitled to lead as its in their genes. I think this applies to the likes of Hone Hariwera... They are raised in a highly politicised environment and Mr Cunliffe shows all the traits of this.. I really do think he considers himself 'born to rule' and thats a dangerous thing

[Paul in NZ]

Hang on - can't you see the contradictions between what you say above and what you say below ???

No - 'below' I was refering to historical conditions and in the first post it was a current situation comment.

[Paul in NZ]

Hang on - can't you see the contradictions between what you say above and what you say below ???

Not really. Later post is historical context elaborating on the first. He is not really middle class but a different class altogether. Historically the royals were the ruling elite. Now a political class has evolved particularly in the labour camp

[Paul in NZ]

how did that happen? class warfare??

[Ocean1]

how did that happen? class warfare??

Talking to yourself?

Senility.

[carbonhed]

Chris Trotter on the Left's implosion :-

Circling the drain.

[Banditbandit]

Not really. Later post is historical context elaborating on the first. He is not really middle class but a different class altogether. Historically the royals were the ruling elite. Now a political class has evolved particularly in the labour camp

That shows a lack of understanding of the class system - yes, once upon a time (Bedtime story) the royals were the ruling elite - that is not true in a Capitalist system - the capitalists/bourgeoisie became the ruling elite - ruling not by force of arms but by economic and therefore hegemonic power ...

[Ocean1]

(Bedtime story) .......

And that's about all it is.

Not a particularly entertaining or original one at that.

[Paul in NZ]

That shows a lack of understanding of the class system - yes, once upon a time (Bedtime story) the royals were the ruling elite - that is not true in a Capitalist system - the capitalists/bourgeoisie became the ruling elite - ruling not by force of arms but by economic and therefore hegemonic power ...

Good try....

The class system morphs and changes quickly. Using terms like upper class and thinking 'downton abbey' does not really work other than using it as a stereotype that generally everyone understands.

I guess I'm not using the term royals accurately if you are thinking in todays money but rather refering to the titled land owning class that did run things (once a long time ago) but its a small point.

In my opinion Mr Cunliffe is Labour 'Royalty'... Or at least he has aquired most of the habits of the left wing ruling class.

God - what a silly subject for a motorcycle forum...

[oldrider]

It's not only a motorcycle forum when you are on "Rant and Rage" is it Paul?

[husaberg]

Labour must be desirable to get into, since the reporter chap wants to become a politician...

The TVNZ debacle over it being a political mouthpiece is out in the news.

As said many times before, TVNZ must be sold off and privatised to ensure a neutral position in the media spectrum, rather than being a political propaganda machine.

Yes you are correct, selling it to Rupert Murdoch will insure its neutrality

Latest poll results show the Greens and Winston First's secret talks with Krim.con have backfired horrendously. Everything that fat bastard touches just turns to shit.

One News Poll

Maybe the Cunifffe needs to front up with a note from his doctor proving he's not as shape shifting Alien as well then.

[carbonhed]

Damn it's getting hard to keep up with this fuckwits brainfarts.

Actually first I have to acknowledge that the Labour caucus called this right. They didn't want a bar of this dingbat and they knew him better than most. I thought he'd be more of a challenge to the government... I was wrong.

Props to the activist base and the unions! Labours gone from a likeable but totally incompetent leader to an unlikeable, dishonest and totally incompetent leader. Way to go guys. Who's next?

What's with Matt McCarten as chief of staff. Trying to outflank the Greens on the far Left? What kind of sense does that make?

Secret trusts to hide the identity of donors!!!!

Krim.con writing your IT policy?

Your own staffers leaking your policy?

[Robbo]

Ah yes, dear old David Cuntlips seems to have lost the plot. Just like Len Brown he can't see where he is going wrong.

[Banditbandit]