Tightening the line?

[Drew]

Well clearly the OP didn't understand the concept sufficiently to put it into action.

(And presumably he's been doing it already).

Through a lack of experience and confidence I submit.

Bikers need to stop being retards, on their bikes. Problem is, most don't know they suck at what they think they're boss at.

Training should be manditory, for all road users. Us arguing on here is futile.

PS, you coming to the have a go day this year?

[Katman]

Through a lack of experience and confidence I submit.

Bikers need to stop being retards, on their bikes. Problem is, most don't know they suck at what they think they're boss at.

Training should be manditory, for all road users. Us arguing on here is futile.

PS, you coming to the have a go day this year?

Your example of children riding push bikes doesn't stack up Drew.

Children generally steer the handlebars of a push bike in the direction they want to turn.

New motorcyclists would be better off gaining an understanding of the mechanics of countersteering rather than filling their heads with that Twist of the Wrist bollocks.

Yes, I'll be at the have a go day. Are you coming to the bike show on Sunday?

[Drew]

Your example of children riding push bikes doesn't stack up Drew.

Children generally steer the handlebars of a push bike in the direction they want to turn.

New motorcyclists would be better off gaining an understanding of the mechanics of countersteering rather than filling their heads with that Twist of the Wrist bollocks.

Yes, I'll be at the have a go day. Are you coming to the bike show on Sunday?

They still turn the wrong way to steer the wheels out from under them, to promote the lean required. That is all that counter steering is. The need to continue loading the inside bar is simply fighting the geometry and forces at work.

Dunno anything about the bike show. We'll be racing the truck meeting again.

[James Deuce]

No they don't. They're not going fast enough to need to with standard pushie geometry.

[bogan]

Do we need to call hitcher?

The way I've always seen it, is steering/turning etc, which while reliant on counter-steering principals, isn't 'counter-steering'. Counter-steering is when you give the bar a big enough whack that the gyroscopic forces impart a rather abrupt lean angle change; i.e. 45+deg per second. The former is something you don't need to spell out as 'counter-steering', and the latter is something you don't want to do mid corner anyway.

No they don't. They're not going fast enough to need to with standard pushie geometry.

yeh they do, even pedlies have trail and balance and whatnot

[Katman]

Do we need to call hitcher?

The way I've always seen it, is steering/turning etc, which while reliant on counter-steering principals, isn't 'counter-steering'. Counter-steering is when you give the bar a big enough whack that the gyroscopic forces impart a rather abrupt lean angle change; i.e. 45+deg per second. The former is something you don't need to spell out as 'counter-steering', and the latter is something you don't want to do mid corner anyway.



yeh they do, even pedlies have trail and balance and whatnot

I'd suggest you head on back to school.

You're wrong.

[bogan]

I'd suggest you head on back to school.

You're wrong.

I'm not allowed back there, and they give me funny looks when I try.

You're not very good at rebutting.

[pritch]

My money is still on it being a chick...

Yeah, the bastard that invented the electric start has a lot to answer for. Prior to that chicks were almost exclusively on pillion seats.

[pritch]

Do we need to call hitcher?

Why? Is this thread about grammar now?

Many moons ago I had a BMW K100RS, nice bike but those things steered like a supertanker. Most "brick" riders of my acquaintance used to consciously counter-steer to get the bike to turn quicker. We would physically have a little practice when setting out on a trip. This practice habit returns occasionally but none of the bikes I have owned since have been quite so reluctant to change direction.

[James Deuce]

yeh they do, even pedlies have trail and balance and whatnot

Set off in first on a mountain bike and push on the left bar while leaning left and let us know how that goes for you. I was taught how to counter steer by a cyclist when I was about 17. Prior to that going round corners when going relatively fast was magic fu. I did a cycle tour of the central Nth Island with him and learned more about 2 wheeled dynamics than I'd thought was possible. My dirt riding improved out of sight, because I learned when to counter steer and when to point the wheel where I wanted to go instead of relying on magic fu. There is a point where you go from "normal" to "counter" steering and it is at relatively low speed, but it is dependent on geometry what that speed is.

For instance, I don't counter steer out of my gargre of a morning. That would unsensible, bordering on unhinged. I do counter steer into the first corner I come to on the road at the legal urban (not Keith) limit.

[James Deuce]

Why? Is this thread about grammar now?

Many moons ago I had a BMW K100RS, nice bike but those things steered like a supertanker. Most "brick" riders of my acquaintance used to consciously counter-steer to get the bike to turn quicker. We would physically have a little practice when setting out on a trip. This practice habit returns occasionally but none of the bikes I have owned since have been quite so reluctant to change direction.

It's cos the grips were so close together. Relatively little mechanical leverage to overcome gyroscopic precession.

[bogan]

Why? Is this thread about grammar now?

Well, the definition of countersteering is being liberally interpereted, and I've heard hitcher hates liberals

Set off in first on a mountain bike and push on the left bar while leaning left and let us know how that goes for you. I was taught how to counter steer by a cyclist when I was about 17. Prior to that going round corners when going relatively fast was magic fu. I did a cycle tour of the central Nth Island with him and learned more about 2 wheeled dynamics than I'd thought was possible. My dirt riding improved out of sight, because I learned when to counter steer and when to point the wheel where I wanted to go instead of relying on magic fu. There is a point where you go from "normal" to "counter" steering and it is at relatively low speed, but it is dependent on geometry what that speed is.

For instance, I don't counter steer out of my gargre of a morning. That would unsensible, bordering on unhinged. I do counter steer into the first corner I come to on the road at the legal urban (not Keith) limit.

Yeh but how did you get to be leaning left? by turning to the right (probably unconsciously) to move the bikes wheel track rightwards, to give a leftwards lean. In other words, try riding straight, then turn the bars to the left, betcha you'll end up on your arse with a sore right shoulder.

There are two factors that are technically countersteering, once being gyroscopics, the other being movement of the wheel track. I consider the latter to be instinctive, and the former to be what people should refer to when talking about the counter-steering technique.

[pritch]

I think people say something like 70% front, 30% rear. I reckon it's 95% front, and 5% rear at the most.

Or sometimes less than 5%? Although I believe cruisers are different...

[Drew]

Or sometimes less that 5%? Although I believe cruisers are different...

Yeah, I use no back brake at all. Road and track at least.

Bad buzz when the front brakes on the race bike failed. The rear had never been pumped hack up after a wheel change.

Quite the mind fuck for me, to climb on a cruiser. Can barely ride the things till I get some pace on.

Still got me buggered, how Marc can turn a bike with the rear wheel off the bloody ground completely.

[James Deuce]

Yeh but how did you get to be leaning left? .

I WANT HIM TO FALL ON HIS LEFT HIP WHILE THE BIKE SHOOTS OFF TO THE RIGHT!

Shhh. You're missing the point

Drop the intuitive stuff. It paranormal psycho-babble. Steer the damn thing. It's why it has handlebars.

AT low speed there is no need to counter steer. anything from 10-30 km/hr depending on geometry. There's so little gyroscopic precession to over come that you can do it by steering normally. Over those speeds, once you intitiate the turn with counter steering you then steer "normally". Push left to go left, bike leans, then the bars move to the left and you steer left, the reduced curcumference of the (cos of the way bike tyres are made) tyre tracks the radius of the turn. Counter steering provides the lean angle you need to make the radius of the turn you are attempting. The quicker and more precisely you dial it in the better then end result. Try watching the bars of bike in a video where you can see it . Dial it in conciously. ALl the stress of magic fu goes away.

This video shows it really well, at very low speed. I bump the bars right to go right (or left - it's not all right can turns or that would just be a circle and wouldn't really demonstrate the point) and as soon as the lean angle is dialled in the bars turn right.