The Ukraine

[avgas]

i vote for the chocolate king!

[Brian d marge]

Darknesss ...fk yr couch .........go buy a new one



Stephen

[mashman]

i vote for the chocolate king!

Yet another useless Wonka.

[awa355]

Is starting to warm up a bit over there.


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27578440

[SPman]

The current situation on the ground

• Donetsk Airport freight terminal is burned and partly destroyed. Kiev is believed to be in control of the airport at this time. Damage to the terminal building is unknown.
• The attempt to seize Donetsk Airport was reinforced by Vostok Brigade. Casualties were heavy in the brigade but numbers unknown.
• The Vostok Brigade wounded being transported to hospital in a truck were fired upon. The driver was killed, then an RPG round was fired at the truck. All the wounded in the truck were killed, either by the RPG or head shots after the assault. Confirmed by vid and photos of the dead, all that could be seen had head wounds. A second video not being published absolutely confirms that all the dead from the trucks carrying wounded had head wounds.
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Zv...ature=youtu.be
• Numerous bombardments last evening and this morning of civilian areas of Slavyansk, Donetsk, Mariupol and Lugansk City and suburbs, civilian casualties are heavy with more than 70 reported dead and wounded.
• Major movements of Kiev forces as of 05 local time this morning have not commenced. More information on this later.
• As of 11:30 local time scattered probing attacks are reported around Slavyansk.
• As of 10:05 local time the situation in Mariupol is unknown.
• No major attacks by the Nats today, just numerous small probes.
• Evacuation is being attempted in Slavyansk for civilians but it is not possible, the city is cut off and surrounded to an extent. Don't know if this is true or if it is a charade to mask the evacuation of at least the children. Reality is Slavyansk has to large a population to evacuate, 120,000.
• Scattered artillery and mortar attacks continue in the vicinity of Slavyansk and the outskirts of Donetsk, almost all at random civilian residential areas. Some casualties but number is unknown.
• No information on the situation in either Lugansk Oblast or Mariupol in Donetsk Oblast.

and lots more interesting stuff at

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.br...4-utczulu.html

[Winston001]

"

If Russia were to restrict the export of that uranium, explains Katusa, life as we know it in the United States could come to an abrupt halt.

If that happened America’s lights would go out. It would be the greatest blackout in American history…
.

You have to remember the facts… You can talk about hope and dreams all you want, but the reality is that one in every five homes in America is powered by Russian fuel.

In 2013 America consumed just over 45 million pounds [of uranium] and in the U.S. last year they produced just under 4.4 million pounds.

The U.S. imports over 90% of what they consume and that is a strategic issue when you think about the fact that 20% of base-load power is based on nuclear energy..
"

Uh-oh.......

Oh oh indeed. But not quite as you may think. The quote is a navel-gazing American perspective and you know the Yanks, they are empty of anything outside the 50 states.

Uranium is actually a common metal if you really want to find it. Sea water for example. The Uranium Kings are our mates across the ditch, the bloody Ozzies who have 31% of the worlds known uranium reserves. Russia has a piddling 9% which incidentally is the same as Canada. No panic here.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Nu...ly-of-Uranium/

[R650R]

The engines on these will be kept warm at moment, interesting short doco with English subtitles.

[SPman]

With Slavyansk and Donetsk being encircled and no one being allowed to leave, this little snippet was interesting

Civilians are gradually being evacuated from the combat zone and even if the Ukrainian authorities use various intimidation and nasty harassment techniques against these refugees (like forcing them to get out of their buses and continue on foot), they cannot simply kill them all (too many cellphones with cameras, too many reporters out there). As for the NDF, they are clearly getting more and more weapons such as the MANPADS (man portable air defense systems) and rapid fire AA (anti-air) guns mentioned by "Juan" which the NDF seems to regularly "find" here and there. By the way, MANPADS and AA guns are the *perfect* weapons for urban warfare. The first ones prevent not only air strikes but also air mobility (ferrying around of men and equipment) As for rapid-fire AA guns they can not only shoot helicopters and aircraft, they can turn any wall or lightly armored vehicle into confetti in just a few seconds. Even a main battle tank will be badly rattled if a ZU-23 puts well-laid burst of steel armor-piercing rounds on it. My understanding is that so far the NDF only has the towed version, but sooner or later they are going to get the self-propelled one (the ZU-23-4 lovingly called "Shilka") which is normally used as air-defense system for in any motor-rifle or armored regiment. As for the old ZU-23-2 they can be mounted on pickups and trucks (though these vehicles will shake badly during firing). I think of these simple but formidable weapons as "WWII weapons on steroids".

[SPman]

And a few visuals to show what it's currently like in Lubyansk.....


resulting in ......


but it's all just a bit of fun....!

but, from the correspondent on the ground....

For you politicians behind the coup d'etat in Kiev and the war against the citizens of Ukraine, you disgust me. I have only this to say to Merkel, Torchinov, Poroshenko, Holland, Cameron. Swift Boat John, Nuland and Obama, whoever the 'president' of poland is, each and every one of you, your minions and hangers on, the west politicians, ALL of you.

Damn your eyes, damn your souls, damn you to Hell, back to where you came from. You are beneath contempt.

[mark247]

Such a terrible situation. Having lived in eastern Ukraine for 6 months and having friends there, this all feels rather close to home. Also wrote my Master's thesis on Ukraine's European integration, how wrong I was!!

The last few days in Lugansk have been awful, I hope the borders to Russia are closed soon so the stream of terrorists halted.

[Brian d marge]

Such a terrible situation. Having lived in eastern Ukraine for 6 months and having friends there, this all feels rather close to home. Also wrote my Master's thesis on Ukraine's European integration, how wrong I was!!

The last few days in Lugansk have been awful, I hope the borders to Russia are closed soon so the stream of terrorists halted.

What did u say in the thesisabout intergration out of interest

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[mark247]

I was more arguing that Ukraine's attitude towards integration, mainly the association agreement, hadn't changed between the previous Yushchenko presidency and the then Yanukovych presidency even though Yushchenko/Tymoshenko were 'pro-EU' and Yanukovych was the classic Dombass mafia. Really Ukraine has been burdened by being a country that needs good relations with both EU and Russia and its government has always kind of failed at both - mainly due to its corrupt officials.

Euromaiden has really scarred Ukraine's relations with Russia for the foreseen future and put the EU under a lot of stress. I really hope the EU does the right thing and helps Ukraine as much as it can.

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[SPman]

I was more arguing that Ukraine's attitude towards integration, mainly the association agreement, hadn't changed between the previous Yushchenko presidency and the then Yanukovych presidency even though Yushchenko/Tymoshenko were 'pro-EU' and Yanukovych was the classic Dombass mafia. Really Ukraine has been burdened by being a country that needs good relations with both EU and Russia and its government has always kind of failed at both - mainly due to its corrupt officials.

Euromaiden has really scarred Ukraine's relations with Russia for the foreseen future and put the EU under a lot of stress. I really hope the EU does the right thing and helps Ukraine as much as it can.

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The Ukraine people just wanted to get rid of the oligarchs - Yushchenko, Tymoshenko, Yanukovych, who have been bleeding Ukraine dry for the last 20 yrs. So their protests were hijacked and they get another oligarch, who changes his spots so fast to suit whatever position is suitable, he could be a chameleon.

I hope the borders to Russia are closed soon so the stream of terrorists halted.

Are you serious? The majority of Eastern Ukrainians, 70-80%, don't believe the Kiev government is legitimate. There is a concerted anti-Russian push by the Kiev government - particularly the neo-nazis and Svoboda, so it's no wonder the predominantly Russian east is worried. Most of the "terrorists" are locals - there are some Chechyens coming in - which scare the shit out of everyone, but Russia is staying out of it at the moment, despite the provocation of the west! They aren't totally stupid - time enough to come in, if the "minor" killing escalates into wholesale slaughter (many more than the 1,000 or so who have been killed so far). The whole thing is being stirred up by an EU that is in the thrall of the USA, and A US government that is rapidly going stark raving mad, and don't give a damn what destruction their policies wraught! Russia has signed a 30 yr energy deal with China and will start energy trading in it's own currency soon - the USA certainly don't want that to happen and are back to attacking Russia like a rabid Pit Bull! Along with all their minions, UK, Aust, NZ, EU, NATO, etc. The whole situation has the potential to turn very nasty indeed, particularly in light of the US policy and belief in a pre-emptive, nuclear first strike!!!!

[Brian d marge]

Will respond in depth later in a meeting now butcheck out the work of larry diamond this american has popped up a few times in regime changes

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[mark247]

The Ukraine people just wanted to get rid of the oligarchs - Yushchenko, Tymoshenko, Yanukovych, who have been bleeding Ukraine dry for the last 20 yrs. So their protests were hijacked and they get another oligarch, who changes his spots so fast to suit whatever position is suitable, he could be a chameleon.
Are you serious? The majority of Eastern Ukrainians, 70-80%, don't believe the Kiev government is legitimate. There is a concerted anti-Russian push by the Kiev government - particularly the neo-nazis and Svoboda, so it's no wonder the predominantly Russian east is worried. Most of the "terrorists" are locals - there are some Chechyens coming in - which scare the shit out of everyone, but Russia is staying out of it at the moment, despite the provocation of the west! They aren't totally stupid - time enough to come in, if the "minor" killing escalates into wholesale slaughter (many more than the 1,000 or so who have been killed so far). The whole thing is being stirred up by an EU that is in the thrall of the USA, and A US government that is rapidly going stark raving mad, and don't give a damn what destruction their policies wraught! Russia has signed a 30 yr energy deal with China and will start energy trading in it's own currency soon - the USA certainly don't want that to happen and are back to attacking Russia like a rabid Pit Bull! Along with all their minions, UK, Aust, NZ, EU, NATO, etc. The whole situation has the potential to turn very nasty indeed, particularly in light of the US policy and belief in a pre-emptive, nuclear first strike!!!!

I agree Poroshenko has a lot to prove. I think he is in a better situation than Yanukovych though. Poroshenko is the founder of the Party of Regions party, he knows Putin personally, he also speaks good English and Ukrainian which is very important. He is a completely different politician to Yanukovych, I suggest reading interviews of Yanukovych's former advisors (sorry i cant recall where i saw them).

I am serious. First of all, i don't think any current opinion polls (or referendums) in Ukraine, especially from Donetsk Oblast and Lugansk Oblast, are accurate. That said, polls in previous years have shown that support for Ukraine staying intact is the majority throughout Ukraine. One thing I know for sure from my own observations and from my friends in Ukraine: The majoring of Ukrainians just wish they could get on with their lives, they want Ukraine to stay Ukraine. In Eastern Ukraine oblasts which are the most affected, most people want nothing to do with the seperatists - they just want to live in a city which isn't being ripped apart. I know there are Ukrainian nationals in the seperatists, there is no denying it, but a vast amount of them are Russian, from regions near Ukraine such as Voronezh and unfortunately Dagestan. The Russian government has done a terrible job promoting a cease fire, allowing trucks of Chechens through Russia without stopping them - there is no way Russian authorities didn't know this was occuring.

I don't really have much to say about your EU/USA thoughts.

At the end of the day everyone is allowed to have their opinion - to be honest I don't think we will see eye to eye on this topic I don't want an argument.

Edit: What's your background? It's always interesting to know wher people get their info / how their opinions are formed.