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Thread: The Ukraine

  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoop View Post
    Intel dump.

    12 July 2014: In Ukraine the Russian backed Donbas separatists have suffered serious defeats in the last few weeks and are further weakened by internal disputes and less support from Russia. Ukrainian security forces have entered most rebel held areas and basically crippled Russian efforts to annex the Donbas. The two Ukrainian provinces (Donetsk and Luhansk) which comprise the Donbas are now mostly under government control. Donbas contains about nine percent of Ukrainian territory, 13 percent of the population and 15 percent of the GDP. Donbas is about 38 percent ethnic Russian. The two provinces comprise the Donets Basin (or “Donbas”) which was for a long time an economic powerhouse for Soviet Russia. But that began to decline in the 1980s and accelerated when the Soviet Union fell (and Ukraine became independent) in 1991. Ukraine wants to hold onto Donbas but needs foreign help to do so.

    Ukraine received diplomatic, economic and military aid from the West but the most important foreign aid was the economic pressure on Russia that causes a massive flight of foreign and Russian capital from Russia. The economic angle is important because Donbas residents (Ukrainians as well as ethnic Russians) are more concerned with the local economy than remaining part of Ukraine. Initial Russian success in Donbas was partly possible because two decades of corrupt and inept Ukrainian politicians have left the economy a mess and living standards lower than the rest of Eastern Europe and even Russia. Most Ukrainians want some economic progress and that means less corruption and more efficient government. Petro Poroshenko, the newly elected Ukrainian president is seen as honest and competent, but it remains to be seen if he can turn around enough corrupt government officials and politicians who currently run the government and economy. Poroshenko was sworn in on June 7th and Ukrainians expected him to show some results quickly otherwise the economic stagnation will continue and Donbas will be lost more to apathy than Russian aggression. Poroshenko’s efforts to deal with corruption and revive the national economy have gone forward but are still overshadowed by the Russian backed violence in Donbas.

    Poroshenko has shown he will not back down in the face of Russian threats and it is the Russians who have blinked, so far. Russian leaders were forced to pay attention to the capital flight (over $75 billion do far) because that has had a real and negative effect on the Russian economy. In addition Western nations are gradually severing Russian ties to the Western economy the Russian aggression unnerved many Russian investors and business leaders. Economic statistics for the year so far show the damage clearly. This financial panic makes it even more difficult for Russia to grow its economy and keep most Russians content with their increasingly authoritarian government. Economist expect more than $100 billion to leave Russia by the end of the year, and this cripples economic growth because that cash is not available to invest in new and existing businesses. As a result Russia has backed off on its support for the Donbas rebels but not completely abandoned them.

    Russia appears to have a “Plan B” for the Donbas that that includes keeping the rebels operational, even if at a very low level, so that by the end of the year, when the cold weather returns, Russia can uses its control over natural gas supplies for Ukraine to compel the Ukrainians to cede Donbas to Russia. This is a long shot but it is possible and Russia now trying to portray itself as the Good Guy and peacemaker. For the moment Russia is beaten, but not defeated.
    Ukraine has been fighting to keep Donbas and since April, when Ukrainian troops moved in and clashed with pro-Russian rebels. In three months of fighting over a thousand troops, police, civilians and rebels have died. The fighting has driven over 100,000 people from their homes and that could more than double as civilians flee the city of Donetsk. That could result in over 3 percent of the 6.6 million people in Donbas becoming refugees and that number could increase when the other rebel held city, Luhansk, is also besieged.

    Many of the Donbas refugees are ethnic Russians and they flee to Russia. This includes a growing number of former rebels who have quit their rebel organization in disgust or frustration at the recent decline in Russian support. Rebel morale is down and desertions (and sometimes surrenders to government forces) are up because the various rebel factions are arguing over what to do and who should be in charge. In the past Russia provided general guidance (and material support for that “guidance”) and the various rebel groups each did what they could to support the Russian plan. At the moment Russia no longer has a clear strategy for the Donbas rebellion, although that may change. And it is that hope that is keeping many of the remaining rebels fighting. Russian volunteers and some light weapons and ammo continue to cross the border into Donbas. But more substantial support requires Russian government cooperation and, for the moment, that cooperation has stopped. Some 90 percent of the pro-Russian rebels are ethnic Russians from Ukraine (mostly from Donbas, where the population is nearly 40 percent ethnic Russian). Unfortunately for the rebels, they do not have the support of most people in Donbas, not even most of the ethnic Russians.

    In one area Russian support for the Ukraine rebels continues. Russia still helps with the pro-rebel campaign on the Internet. This Information War type effort tries to convince people that what is going on in Donbas is not another Russian attempt to annex neighbouring territory but a legitimate uprising against a tyrannical Ukrainian government. This Information War campaign is not having much success and is mainly appreciated by rebel supporters (in Ukraine, Russia and elsewhere) who have already made up their minds.

    11 July 2014: In Ukraine government forces are attacking rebels at the Donetsk International Airport. Donetsk is one of the last two major city in eastern Ukraine (the Donbas) held by the rebels. The other rebel held city is Luhansk and it is under air and artillery attack.

    10 July 2014: In Ukraine pro-Russian rebels fired rockets at a government held border post on the Russian border, killing 23 Ukrainian troops and wounding about three times as many. Ukraine promised retaliation for this, the largest loss in one attack in Donbas so far. The casualties were caused by rockets brought in from Russia.

    9 July 2014: In Ukraine air force attacks on pro-Russian rebels in the Donbas left over fifty dead. Ukraine is using its air force to keep an eye on where the rebels are and then to bomb them.

    8 July 2014: In Ukraine pro-Russian rebels fell back into the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk as government forces swept through the Donbas countryside chasing rebels out of many towns and villages. This led the rebels and West European nations to urge the Ukraine government to agree to another ceasefire. The Ukrainians pointed out that the rebels had used previous ceasefires as opportunities to increase their military strength, not sit down and seriously try to work out a permanent peace. So Ukraine is keeping the pressure on until Donbas is free of pro-Russian rebels. That could take a while because the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk have to be taken from the rebels and that must be done with minimal damage to the cities. Bombing and shelling the cities would only cause more locals to back the rebels. So the cities will be surrounded and, in effect, undergo siege. This can take time, but it might persuade the rebels to negotiate an end to it all.

    7 July 2014: In Ukraine pro-Russian rebels have fled the city of Slaviansk and either deserted or headed for the city of Donetsk (100 kilometres to the south). Driving the rebels out of Slaviansk is the biggest victory yet for the government forces, which are now moving on to besiege Donetsk.

    4 July 2014: In Ukraine the government said it would consider ceasefire negotiations if the rebels stopped fighting. Many rebels are interested in negotiations, but are concerned about amnesty and avoiding prosecution for death and destruction they inflicted since April. The rebels are also split by leadership and strategy disputes. Ukraine is finding that there does not seem to be a single rebel leader to deal with anymore.

    3 July 2014: President Putin has called for new education efforts to indoctrinate Russian children to be more patriotic and to ignore foreign (mainly Western) influences. This is another attempt to revive Cold War era programs. The communist Soviet government spent a lot of time, money and effort on educating children to be pro-Soviet. It didn’t work then and is unlikely to work now. But this is the direction current Russian rulers want to take the country in.

    1 July 2014: In Ukraine the ten day ceasefire came to an end as the government forces resumed their offensive against the Donbas rebels.

    30 June 2014: The new leader of Islamic terrorists in the Caucasus (Ali Abu Mukhammad, also known as Aliaskhab Kebekov) has released an hour-long video in which is urges his followers to reduce civilian casualties (especially Moslem women and children) and not fight to the death when cornered. This is an admission of defeat and a decision to switch tactics. Islamic terrorists in the Caucasus will still use suicide bombs and attack security forces and local officials at every opportunity, but the strategy is now more long term and focused on reducing losses among Islamic terrorists and building up public support. Most people in the Caucasus are unhappy with local governments, which are corrupt and pro-Russian. Before the Islamic terrorists can take leadership of that resentment they have to shed their reputation of being mindless butchers who kill lots of civilians without seeming to have any impact on the corrupt local governments.

    28 June 2014: In Ukraine rebels in Donetsk released four OSCE (Organisation for Security and Co-operation) observers were taken prisoner in late May.

    27 June 2014: Ukraine signed a free trade agreement with the European Union (EU). It was a Ukrainian effort to sign such a deal last November that led to the Russian campaign to seize Crimea (which succeeded in March) and Donbas (which seems to be failing.) Russia protested the new deal with the EU, to no effect. Georgia and Moldova signed similar deals, despite sinister warnings by Russia not to.

    Ukraine extended the ceasefire in Donbas 72 hours in the hope that the rebels would agree to serious peace negotiations and end their violence against Ukrainian soldiers and police in the Donbas. Some rebels want to make peace but the majority do not and these hardliners are responsible for the sniper and mortar fire against government forces during the week long ceasefire.

    25 June 2014: NATO denounced Russia for continuing to support the Ukraine rebels after promising to withdraw such support. By the end of the month Russia had shut down most of that support, apparently because of the damage the Western economic sanctions were doing to the Russian economy.

    Do you write this stuff or do you get it from Fox News; Hans Anderson, Grim Bros?
    Atheism and Religion are but two sides of the same coin.
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  2. #287
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    Nah...from his superiors .

  3. #288
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    People in the embattled Donbass know the shale beneath their feet could be the real reason for conflict in their towns
    http://readersupportednews.org/news-...erves-fracking
    A visitor to the Donbass in February or March wouldn’t have heard fear of war but fear of fracking, with residents fearful their land would be destroyed........

    .....The people of the Donbass, the country’s gritty industrial region in the east, were not naive. They realized that gas pipelines crossing the border with Russia and the shale gas fields near Slovyansk — with a potential reserve of about 3 trillion cubic meters of gas...........

    .............Gas pipes, locals believed, were a reason behind the daily fighting over Amvrosyevka, since a Gazprom main line from Siberia to Europe that runs right outside the home of the Ivanovs, 16 kilometers from the border with Russia, passes around the corner from a Ukrainian checkpoint that is attacked by rebels continually.
    The Ivanovs were torn by fear and ideologies. The father, Igor, is Russian but sympathized with the Maidan revolution. The mother, Tatyana, is Ukrainian and loved Putin. She felt especially proud of Russia on Victory Day, May 9.
    The war caught them in the middle of the strawberry harvest and a redecoration project at their daughter Yulia’s house. By the beginning of July, constant fighting pushed the family to move to the basement.
    “We don’t support anybody. All we want is to stay alive. Please make the world understand that,” Igor said.
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  4. #289
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    "The Russian president’s call for a humanitarian corridor comes hours after the UN Security Council blocked a Russia proposed statement on a mutual ceasefire and peace talks in Ukraine – and just minutes after US President Barack Obama blasted at Russia and threatened it with more sanctions over its purportedly “direct role” in the Ukrainian crisis."

    Meanwhile, just minutes after (as mentioned above), Obama threatens Russia with new sanctions over Ukraine...

    I think this little ditty speaks volumes as to the real issue: "Obama said, “Russia is already more isolated than any time since the end of the cold war.”". WTF does that have to do with anything? Obama, you're a cock.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    I think this little ditty speaks volumes as to the real issue: "Obama said, “Russia is already more isolated than any time since the end of the cold war.”". WTF does that have to do with anything? Obama, you're a cock.
    That's just shit talk for the TV watchers consumption

  6. #291
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    So any word on the info on the black boxes yet?
    Political Correctness, the chief weapon of whiney arse bastards

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    Quote Originally Posted by buggerit View Post
    So any word on the info on the black boxes yet?
    Yup... it's all over the internet. They said the missile did it... but I reckon that's bullshit .
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Yup... it's all over the internet. They said the missile did it... but I reckon that's bullshit .
    My guess also, things went very quiet with the accusations.
    Political Correctness, the chief weapon of whiney arse bastards

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    Aug 22...............
    Quote Originally Posted by saker
    I heard yesterday evening that Holland has officially announced that it will not release the full info of the flight data and voice recorders of MH17. Thus Holland has now become an official accomplice to the cover-up of this murder of the passengers of MH17. This is absolutely outrageous and disgusting I and sure hope that the Malaysian government will not allow this. As for Kiev, it is also sitting on the recording of the communications between the Kiev ATC and MH17. Finally, the USA has it all through its own signals intelligence capabilities. So they all know and they are all covering up. Under the circumstances, can anybody still seriously doubt "who done it"?
    ..............
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Obama, you're a cock.
    Quote Originally Posted by buggerit View Post
    So any word on the info on the black boxes yet?
    oi. You leave michelle and the daughters out of it.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akzle View Post
    oi. You leave michelle and the daughters out of it.
    cannot spread etc...
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #297
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    Well the fake Russian invasion story seems to have flaked, even the Herald couldn't muster enough bravdo to headline it....

    What were the Ukes thinking, publicly buying those old t-72's from turkey, shipping them in plain site on railway then try to say Russia invading....
    Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket - Eric Hoffer

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    Putin live at a youth forum on current affairs on RT at the mo (10:33).
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  14. #299
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    wot about those 10 russians who got lost .....


    Stephen
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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    Quote Originally Posted by R650R View Post
    Well the fake Russian invasion story seems to have flaked, even the Herald couldn't muster enough bravdo to headline it....

    What were the Ukes thinking, publicly buying those old t-72's from turkey, shipping them in plain site on railway then try to say Russia invading....
    Where is the link to this theory?
    " Rule books are for the Guidance of the Wise, and the Obedience of Fools"

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