How to grow the future of road racing in New Zealand

[scott411]

There are no other riders in NZ that do as much racing in NZ as I do. I do street races, club racers all up and down the north and south island year round and all the national rounds. I race Motocross in NZ and occasionally in Australia. I race the Australia Superbike Series. I have sponsors that are happy with the exposure they get. I dont see what the problem in NZ is except for people saying theres a problem.

I have had dealings with MNZ and they have been great to deal with. There might be shit going down internally with officials etc which is sad but dealing with them if following the correct channels is always a pleasure

pretty great reply here, Shaun why do you want to change the current system, what are you major problems with it?

[suzuki21]

I dont see why everything needs to change, we have good class numbers, the standard of riders is very high considering we have no professional riders. Sponsors are out there if your willing to put in the effort.

Motorcycle racing is a sport. We do it for FUN. It is not a profession, trying to push to find the next Aaron Slight is a nice goal but your forcing a lot of pressure and debt onto young racers.

Racing a superbike is affordable. Just because the leading riders are spending $$$ it doesnt mean you have to. You wouldnt beat them anyway.

I totally agree Chop. The problem I think is we are a country of 4 million which is really the same as a small city overseas. There is not a lot of money around and ROAD RACING IS A MINORITY SPORT! People are expecting far to much.

[jellywrestler]

we had seven internationals in the formula one class for each round of the suzuki series, SEVEN in F1.
we haven't had anywhere near that since the malboro series, i agreee with Chop, whatever we're doing we're doing well, only thing that may push us forward is NZSBK on Sommett sports.
have you all contacted Somett to push for it?/?

[Shaun Harris]

pretty great reply here, Shaun why do you want to change the current system, what are you major problems with it?

Scott after watching what has gone down re the 250 prody class situation with one bike and how the appeal process has gone on and the feed back on here alone from people involved with it, I thought it was time to ask out loud what and where the problems are with our Road racing sport.

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

So what it all comes down to as far as I can see it from a spectators point of view ( NEW WANTA BEES and Mum and Dads the future of our sport) who reads a lot of stuff on PUBLIC web sites about racing in NZ) the system is so screwed up it needs changing so it can be managed by using systems putting in place and worded clearly that there is no interpretation to the rules and procedurres.

RACE FORMAT AND ENTRIES

This season is using the same race format and numbers on the grid have grown, so huge congratulations to the current crew organising all this yet this crew is all leaving the sport for different reasons ( Or a lot of them are) that is directing all the warning signalls to me directly back to the office system and the way it is written and operated on.

As Sloan has said which I have always agreed with, the sponsorship is out there if you get of your butts and be creative and chase it.

To me again it comes down to the office plan and the wording of it, and this is NOT AN ATTACK of the typical one MNZ, although the problem does lay at the feet with these issues. But in there defence, they cannot fix what is broke if we do not tell them/ask them to.

I started this thread to try and get feed back from people to see if my thinking was correct and I deffinately think it is after reading all comments in both threads.

ONE WEEKEND

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

Get smoothness and consinstency flowing from the office and this alone will be helping the sport grow, the rest of it is promotions/tv/crowds/groth will naturally follow as people always like to attach them selves to a smooth sailing ship.

[Kickaha]

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

It would not make the slightest difference, people will always interpret the written word as they want to, unless of course you want a rule book the size of Encyclopedia Britannica to cover every possible scenario and then you'd probably still miss some

You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken

[steveyb]

we had seven internationals in the formula one class for each round of the suzuki series, SEVEN in F1.
we haven't had anywhere near that since the malboro series, i agreee with Chop, whatever we're doing we're doing well, only thing that may push us forward is NZSBK on Sommett sports.
have you all contacted Somett to push for it?/?

Post 34 Spyda.

The challenge comes down to Broadcast Quality.
It is one thing having a free live-stream on the internet that aficionados will follow 'cos they just want to.
It is another having a quality product that TV viewers will watch and not screw their noses up at.
It is very difficult and expensive to cover motorbike racing on the track, well.
It is another thing altogether to produce quality magazine type items that can be inserted before races, during breaks, afterwards etc that can be good quality and can provide exposure for the sport and its participants, sponsors and supporters.
As mentioned, Sommet want content, but cannot create it yet. If we can provide content that can get a conversation going out there, then maybe we can be first cab off the rank in the future?

[Billy]

Scott after watching what has gone down re the 250 prody class situation with one bike and how the appeal process has gone on and the feed back on here alone from people involved with it, I thought it was time to ask out loud what and where the problems are with our Road racing sport.

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

So what it all comes down to as far as I can see it from a spectators point of view ( NEW WANTA BEES and Mum and Dads the future of our sport) who reads a lot of stuff on PUBLIC web sites about racing in NZ) the system is so screwed up it needs changing so it can be managed by using systems putting in place and worded clearly that there is no interpretation to the rules and procedurres.

RACE FORMAT AND ENTRIES

This season is using the same race format and numbers on the grid have grown, so huge congratulations to the current crew organising all this yet this crew is all leaving the sport for different reasons ( Or a lot of them are) that is directing all the warning signalls to me directly back to the office system and the way it is written and operated on.

As Sloan has said which I have always agreed with, the sponsorship is out there if you get of your butts and be creative and chase it.

To me again it comes down to the office plan and the wording of it, and this is NOT AN ATTACK of the typical one MNZ, although the problem does lay at the feet with these issues. But in there defence, they cannot fix what is broke if we do not tell them/ask them to.

I started this thread to try and get feed back from people to see if my thinking was correct and I deffinately think it is after reading all comments in both threads.

ONE WEEKEND

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

Get smoothness and consinstency flowing from the office and this alone will be helping the sport grow, the rest of it is promotions/tv/crowds/groth will naturally follow as people always like to attach them selves to a smooth sailing ship.

Count me out mate,I am NOT interested in working with MNZ in anyway while the board retains the members it has,I have faith in the President only,You'll need to find someone else to work with them I'm afaraid,Ive wasted enough of my time already.

But heres a puzzle for you to start with,How can a steward have not followed the correct procedure,When said procedure DOES NOT EXIST.But wait,Don't bother trying to work it out,The sporting Tribunal is going to do that for us.

[cowboyz]

Your missing one thing grom your formula. Its not the 90s....

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with racing in NZ? Id like to hear from a current modern racer.

Racing is expensive. And when you get people saying it's only $20k or $30k so it's cheap that's not cheap. It's alot of money and in recent years (05-current) I have seen alot of talent not on the track sur to financial constraints. It cost me $10k to race in 2010-11 in clubman and my 1998 bike was up against 2007 r1 and rsv4 and the like. Mate was racing in f2 and paid over 20k to run mid field. While it's great to see the fast guys on the track there isn't alot of fun being a mobile chicane in race mode. This brings it back to the development classes where young guys learn to race rather than ride fast. The sport has been dominated by the over 40 for some time and the young ones haven't been coming through. Why is that?
Sloan, you must feel the difference between racing in oz and racing here? Seeing a few races over there the quality of training and experience seems to be alot higher than what is here.
Getting the nationals as an event is a great idea. I took the girl to wanganui this year and I have been plenty of times and I'm quite content to sit and watch bikes go pay and smoke a pack of cigs. It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz. All the stuff Shaun is trying to do is great and making events events worth paying to attend

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[CHOPPA]

Racing is expensive. And when you get people saying it's only $20k or $30k so it's cheap that's not cheap. It's alot of money and in recent years (05-current) I have seen alot of talent not on the track sur to financial constraints. It cost me $10k to race in 2010-11 in clubman and my 1998 bike was up against 2007 r1 and rsv4 and the like. Mate was racing in f2 and paid over 20k to run mid field. While it's great to see the fast guys on the track there isn't alot of fun being a mobile chicane in race mode. This brings it back to the development classes where young guys learn to race rather than ride fast. The sport has been dominated by the over 40 for some time and the young ones haven't been coming through. Why is that?
Sloan, you must feel the difference between racing in oz and racing here? Seeing a few races over there the quality of training and experience seems to be alot higher than what is here.
Getting the nationals as an event is a great idea. I took the girl to wanganui this year and I have been plenty of times and I'm quite content to sit and watch bikes go pay and smoke a pack of cigs. It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz. All the stuff Shaun is trying to do is great and making events events worth paying to attend

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The money that you spend should be relative to the speed you can ride. If you can run close to lap record then your budget might be very high. If you are 5 seconds off the lap record your budget should be really low. If you have no money, your budget should be very low and if you have a lot of money and your happy to spend it then do what you please

If anyone is interested in how to make your racing more affordable I am more than happy to show you how to save money

After seeing what is going on in Australia I would say that NZ is doing extremely well in all respects

[cowboyz]

Do you think we (as nzders) have nothing to learn from across the ditch? From what u see there are 2 sides. Getting full fields on the track and the other is getting spectators interested in watching. They seem related to me. If Joe public wanted to see bikes go round a track then why aren't the stands full on track days? I think people want to see close fast racing. But when I say people I mean a few.. I doubt we will ever see crowds at say the nationals that we see at a rugby game. In saying that. I have seen some international cricket games that there are more guys out on the field than in the stands.

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[jellywrestler]

It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz.

one thing you're fighting with the Cemetery Circuit being on Boxing day is a lot of people have simply knocked off. It's their holiday too.
You could've always taken her into the Cemetery and played Stinky Finger...

[CHOPPA]

Do you think we (as nzders) have nothing to learn from across the ditch? From what u see there are 2 sides. Getting full fields on the track and the other is getting spectators interested in watching. They seem related to me. If Joe public wanted to see bikes go round a track then why aren't the stands full on track days? I think people want to see close fast racing. But when I say people I mean a few.. I doubt we will ever see crowds at say the nationals that we see at a rugby game. In saying that. I have seen some international cricket games that there are more guys out on the field than in the stands.

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Not really mate they are in dire straights. There national championship has all bit fallen over. 6 rounds cut down to 3 and only the first round is a certainty at this stage.

They have another breakaway series that all the rider's are doing this year so hopefully that goes off.

On average it costs $900 nzd entry fee per round! People complain here at $270

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

No this is where I see the problem, all the racers are seem to be happy its only the people that dont race that seem to be the experts. If it aint broke dont fix it. No one has explained to me what is wrong?

There are no other riders in NZ that do as much racing in NZ as I do. I do street races, club racers all up and down the north and south island year round and all the national rounds. I race Motocross in NZ and occasionally in Australia. I race the Australia Superbike Series. I have sponsors that are happy with the exposure they get. I dont see what the problem in NZ is except for people saying theres a problem.

Mate from a racer, organiser and officials perspective the simple answer is not much.
We are getting big grids at Club level in all classes
We have more club members involved with both the Tri series and Nationals
We have Club members competing internationally too.
Our rider training is going from strength to strength providing a steady stream of new racers into Clubmans and beyond

This whole rules milarky is nothing new, even the top tier of racing is having a shit fight at the moment http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2014/...306october.htm

But for some rule interpretations that have a few people jumping up and down we look in pretty good shape from where I'm standing. Rules are always going to be tested, always have done always will be.

As you were.......
KG

[budda]

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

There is only ONE person who is able to "interpret" the rules - that is the Commissioner. HIS "interpretation" IS the official one under the rules ........

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

THAT will be a VERY big ask .... I know better than most exactly what he's had to put in, and also what he's had to put up with. The Man has done his share ........ Thank him by leaving him alone

Also need to be clear, the job you're talking about is a Promoter - the Commissioner has to take the whole countries roadracing under his umbrella - something that an awful lot of people cant grasp .... the Sport IS much much bigger than your local Club

.

Dunno how to do the clever bits, see above for my comments ( in bold )

[Paul in NZ]

I don't understand these posts?

Why is there always so much unhappiness around racing?

For what its worth - if you want a good race get it organised by an ex racer, if you want a good event get it organised by an event organiser...