So do political ideologies have to clash?

[F5 Dave]

No I'm not listening to Billy Bragg

But I was listening to the radio in an early morning, kid induced-not-slept-enough funk hearing some Labour chap being grilled on whether he thought they could win the election & he had to admit in a round about way that under MMP they had to have about 16 partners to do so.



National was close to having ½ the vote but would still need a partner.



So I was thinking, I mean National and Labour when you strip it all down, right back,- behind the rhetoric, basically want the same thing. To be in Power. Spending the tax payers money and screwing over the working citizens is just a fringe benefit.




This might sound crazy when you first say it, but hear me out. Wouldn’t Labour be better having talks with National for a partnership? I mean a Nat/Lab alliance could rule with totally no pandering to the Loonies. Your Craigs, Dotcoms Peters & other parties wouldn’t even be a sideshow. All they have to do is make noises about both wanting some policy & generally keep quiet & they’d have everything they desire.
They could even do some deal for things that they might even want. It’s the only way that Labour will have any influence at all for the next couple of durations & give themselves time to reinvent themselves which hasn’t happened for a while.


Maybe someone should do some Tinder thingy to get Key & Cuntlip to the same coffee-shop for negotiations. Just saying.

[puddytat]

No, not really......think its more a problem of ego...



Billy does sum it up nicely though

[Oscar]

In the 80's and 90's I struggled to see the diff between Labour and National (Prebble v. Richardson!), but the Clarke regime of social engineering/we just know better schtick cured my confusion...also the growing antipathy toward business - I guess it could be crystalized in Cullen's "rich prick" comment.

[MisterD]

Wouldn’t Labour be better having talks with National for a partnership? I mean a Nat/Lab alliance could rule with totally no pandering to the Loonies.

Sounds superficially attractive doesn't it. The problem being that doing so, would give away the whole pretence that there's some difference between the parties. It's far better (for them) to carry on with the charade and take it in turns to screw us...heaven forbid that the sheeple wake up to the con as they're starting to in the UK.

**edit**

Except there is an obvious gulf between red and blue socialism at the moment - the blue flavour appear to be able to organise a piss-up in a brewery.

[AllanB]

MMP was sold that it should even out some of these differences and possible result in the best parties for the country. Crock of shit that was and still is.

It is all just dick-waving

[mashman]

MMP was sold that it should even out some of these differences and possible result in the best parties for the country. Crock of shit that was and still is.

It is all just dick-waving

Why the move to MMP in the first place? There must have been a reason for it? Is it because the alternatives were just as bad and didn't work either?

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I remember voting for MMP under the impression that the longer a govt is in power - the more invulnerable it thinks it is and the more dangerous it becomes casting off a Muldoon era juggernaut for example. Sorry it was my fault.

[oldrider]

True!

It has often amazed/intrigued me why the so called ruling power group don't call upon some of the stronger clearly useful members of the second layer group!

A bit too radical for our politicians to handle probably but they can do it during war time so why not all the time? Good topic F5 Dave!

[mashman]

Yeah I remember voting for MMP under the impression that the longer a govt is in power - the more invulnerable it thinks it is and the more dangerous it becomes casting off a Muldoon era juggernaut for example. Sorry it was my fault.

How's changing that worked out for ya .

[bluninja]

Think of political ideologies like beers. There will always be people that swear by a certain brand of beers and will never change, there will be those that buy whatever beer is on special, and those that just stick to what their parents drank. The beer advertisers don't try and get you to buy their particular brand by saying "It's not much different to what you're having now, drink our brand instead" do they?

I there's little difference, why would a risk averse species change their vote?

[jasonu]

Yeah I remember voting for MMP under the impression that the longer a govt is in power - the more invulnerable it thinks it is and the more dangerous it becomes casting off a Muldoon era juggernaut for example. Sorry it was my fault.

Dave, my Dad thought he was the only one who voted yes to MMP as no one he knew would admit to it. He soon regretted that vote.
That was the last vote I made in NZ and I voted no to MMP. It looked like a system that would give the tin pot and ethnic parties seats with no more than a couple of votes and buggar me that's more or less what happened. At that time I flatted with a German guy who told me they had MMP and it was all shit there.

[puddytat]

Dave, my Dad thought he was the only one who voted yes to MMP as no one he knew would admit to it. He soon regretted that vote.
That was the last vote I made in NZ and I voted no to MMP. It looked like a system that would give the tin pot and ethnic parties seats with no more than a couple of votes and buggar me that's more or less what happened. At that time I flatted with a German guy who told me they had MMP and it was all shit there.

No need to worry about tin pot & ethnic parties ever being in full control, as it'll turn out like it has in Germany & Italy in the past whenever it looked like the progressive vote might win......a Grand Coalition of the centre left/right.

[oldrider]

No need to worry about tin pot & ethnic parties ever being in full control, as it'll turn out like it has in Germany & Italy in the past whenever it looked like the progressive vote might win......a Grand Coalition of the centre left/right.

MMP was designed to contain countries like Germany from ever doing again what they did between the world wars .... I.E. doing nothing!

Ever since we have had MMP we have stagnated.

There must be some better ways of using MMP results to our (the countries) advantage but so far our pollies haven't tumbled to it yet!

Out of all those politicians they really only need a dozen to form a cabinet and run the country!

Politicians, irrespective of their party policy must have "some" independent thoughts that can be captured and utilised to advantage!

Maybe a second tier authority should form a government gleaned from the results of the MMP election "independently" once the people have had their vote!

Nothing could be worse than the way it is with parties sucking up to each other based on "their needs" rather than those of the electors to form a government!

Perhaps a second vote on the preferred coalition options so that we decide the outcome rather than the politicians/ party's? ... Anything FFS!

[Oscar]

I voted for STV.

http://www.elections.org.nz/events/p...e-transferable

Much betterer...

[F5 Dave]

How's changing that worked out for ya .

Well it probably would have worked but Labour before and after Clarke have proved to be almost entirely incompetent and fell apart at the seams when they were in power (pre Clarke) and couldn't decide who their leader was. Mind you the Nats had a go with Bulldger and Shipley.

Mind you I am glad Clarke has gone, evil bich.


But now we are left with the same choices. Evil, Incompetent or Looney (more looney than usual this year).

I don't want any of these fckers having more parliamentary say.