Govt 'covering up' school funding plan

[mashman]

You can change the units used to quantify the product of human activities, and yes inflation does that, but you can't change the value of the product itself without fucking with the market.

Yes, I know you think the fact that money is produced almost free means it therefore should be available to anyone who wants some. That, more than anything else is what identifies you as a simpleton, a fool or a con-man. Find me an economist that denies a link between product and monetary value and I'll show you someone attempting to fuck with the market.

So you can't revalue activity? Coz price fixing says otherwise, as does the existence of the commerce commission.

Not at all. I'm against using it period, remember. So you're saying that the economist that went on national television and stated that money was plucked out of thin air is wrong? I have no doubt economists will see a link between the two, because at that point in time the money has already been created.

[mashman]

That is the Student's Fallacy:

'All jobs require experience, All experiance is gained with a Job.'

The solution is to put people in a position where if they fail to perform up to the required standard, it doesn't result in Catastrophic failure.

That last part is the key - Catastrophic Failure.

I am saying that in order to be able to fly a big commercial Airliner safely, someone has to prove first that they can handle a Robin/Cessna, then a multi-engined light aircract, then move up to a small commercial airliner and so on and so forth.

I am not stopping society at large from making changes to its habits that would show that it is ready to move to a RBE - I am just saying that changes need to happen first, not the other way round.

You are suggesting that you chuck a novice pilot in the seat of a A380 and tell him go for it - Sure there is a good chance he will be fine, but if something goes wrong, it results in a catastrophic accident.

A Fallacy eh. So there isn't a first time for a take off? or the first time for a landing? And yet they succeed in not crashing planes into the floor at any great rate, or even at all. Sure throwing them straight into a commercial airliner from a light aircraft would be dangerous, but the outcome is far from predictable, in fact the odds would favour the pilot.

I wasn't saying that the changes need to be there first, I'm saying that the willingness to respond to a proposed change is there. Educate. Then ask.

That may well be what I'm suggesting and we won't know for sure unless we try or at least as people if they would be keen to give it a try.

[bogan]

A Fallacy eh. So there isn't a first time for a take off? or the first time for a landing? And yet they succeed in not crashing planes into the floor at any great rate, or even at all. Sure throwing them straight into a commercial airliner from a light aircraft would be dangerous, but the outcome is far from predictable, in fact the odds would favour the pilot.

I wasn't saying that the changes need to be there first, I'm saying that the willingness to respond to a proposed change is there. Educate. Then ask.

Training and preventative testing are wonderful things mashy.



Pity we have neither been trained for, nor successfully trialled an RBE.

[mashman]

Training and preventative testing are wonderful things mashy.

Pity we have neither been trained for, nor successfully trialled an RBE.

Not saying they aren't.

Shame it hasn't been trialled at a country level, yup... as it will succeed.

[bogan]

Not saying they aren't.

Shame it hasn't been trialled at a country level, yup... as it will succeed.

You might want to check out the findings/plans of the Venus Project then, not a huge trial, but things like this have to work up from somewhere.

[mashman]

You might want to check out the findings/plans of the Venus Project then, not a huge trial, but things like this have to work up from somewhere.

I have. They don't have a transition plan. It needs to be "trialled" at a country level if it is to be demonstrated properly. Educate. Then ask.

[bogan]

I have. They don't have a transition plan. It needs to be "trialled" at a country level if it is to be demonstrated properly. Educate. Then ask.

From their site...

A circular city would be a transitional phase and could evolve from a semi-cooperative money-oriented society to a resource based economy. This could be the prototype for a series of cities to be constructed in various places throughout the world. The rate of progress will depend on the availability of funds raised during the early stages and the people who identify with , participate in, and support the aims and direction of The Venus Project.

Educate yourself, then type.

Edit: also, I shit you not, I hadn't read this part when I posted the evolution stuff this morning

As these new communities develop and become more widely accepted, they may very well form the basis of a new civilization, preferably through the process of evolution rather than revolution.

[mashman]

From their site...

Educate yourself, then type.

Edit: also, I shit you not, I hadn't read this part when I posted the evolution stuff this morning

I've never seen that page before. Thanks for the linky.

Touche.

Totally agree... it does need to be an evolution. I'd do it differently, but will, as always, support their efforts if that becomes the method of choice for humanity moving forwards. Tis slower than it needs to be, but it'll be interesting to see how the financial system reacts. I guess the lack of funding available for such a project shows the current state of mind. It's a shame we can't fund them and give them their shot... especially as we have a city that could do with a little TLC and those sorts of building designs.

[Ocean1]

So you can't revalue activity? Coz price fixing says otherwise, as does the existence of the commerce commission.

Not at all. I'm against using it period, remember. So you're saying that the economist that went on national television and stated that money was plucked out of thin air is wrong? I have no doubt economists will see a link between the two, because at that point in time the money has already been created.

...............

You can change the units used to quantify the product of human activities, and yes inflation does that, but you can't change the value of the product itself without fucking with the market.

Yes, I know you think the fact that money is produced almost free means it therefore should be available to anyone who wants some. That, more than anything else is what identifies you as a simpleton, a fool or a con-man. Find me an economist that denies a link between product and monetary value and I'll show you someone attempting to fuck with the market.

[Ocean1]

Pity we have neither been trained for, nor successfully trialled an RBE.

We have. Every non-monetary economy in history was a RBE. Every one of them crashed and burned.

[bogan]

We have. Every non-monetary economy in history was a RBE. Every one of them crashed and burned.

Those were RBEs of scarcity though, and RBE of plenty has a much higher chance of success.

[Ocean1]

Those were RBEs of scarcity though, and RBE of plenty has a much higher chance of success.

Cause and effect, dude. If you have everything anyone wants there's no point in actually managing distribution at all, is there?

If you don't then allocating resources to those that don't produce as much as they receive is a sure-fire recipe for more crashing and burning, it's just not sustainable.

One thing amongst all this bullshit is correct: it'll take a quantum change in the evolution of human behaviour to allow any RBE to successfully work: you need them to all be fully functional adults. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanfor...low_experiment

[bogan]

Cause and effect, dude. If you have everything anyone wants there's no point in actually managing distribution at all, is there?

If you don't then allocating resources to those that don't produce as much as they receive is a sure-fire recipe for more crashing and burning, it's just not sustainable.

One thing amongst all this bullshit is correct: it'll take a quantum change in the evolution of human behaviour to allow any RBE to successfully work: you need them to all be fully functional adults. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanfor...low_experiment

Exactly, and that is an excellent way to put it; it is also what people often overlook about the concept. The removal of money is the effect, the cause is an evolution of production technology and human behavior. It's what the venus project is modeled on.

[mashman]

Cause and effect, dude. If you have everything anyone wants there's no point in actually managing distribution at all, is there?

If you don't then allocating resources to those that don't produce as much as they receive is a sure-fire recipe for more crashing and burning, it's just not sustainable.

One thing amongst all this bullshit is correct: it'll take a quantum change in the evolution of human behaviour to allow any RBE to successfully work: you need them to all be fully functional adults. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanfor...low_experiment

If you don't manage distribution, then yeah, absolutely there will be crashing and burning... but I don't see why having everything anyone wants would suddenly case the management of distribution to stop. Plus if that were true, why did human beings innovate given that they had everything? Yet here we are.

Hang on a minute, that statement is a bit arse about face. The environment of the experiment was changed in order to illicit behaviour. To that end it supports the change of environment being the driver of human behaviour and not vice versa as you claim. Also in your linky the experiment was shown to have bias when it came to evaluating the latter year results.

You're gonna have to try much harder than that. Bogan may roll over and play dead like a good little boy, but the conclusion that you have derived from your analysis is flawed from the get go imho.

[bogan]

Bogan may roll over and play dead like a good little boy

how the fuck do you figure that? I got sick of you playing the ad-hominem excuses so went straight to the guy who coined the term R.B.E, to find he agrees with pretty much everything I've been saying; and not a mention of million dollar hammers anywhere from him