Couple of annoying issues 2004 GSX250

[FJRider]

Just doesn't work as well when I want to push it hard.

It's obviously had 10 years of being "Pushed Hard" (it is only a 250)... and the clutch is crying enough ... get over it and fix it.

Replace the plugs with new and re gap them correctly ... THEN ... change/CLEAN the air filter. You WILL notice the difference.

Check for inline fuel filters and replace them if there IS one.

Take the tank off ... take the fuel tap off ... and clean the dregs out of the tank.

Then ... see how it goes ...

If the problem still exists ... get a compression check done.

[biketimus_prime]

Alright chaps thanks for all your input. I will do a big service as soon as I can, will be a chance to get to know how it all works. It looks simple enough to pull everything apart and get to the motor too!

Yes I was adjusting the clutch bit by bit and getting on the bike and checking it.

Oh also the issue with revving seems to go away the warmer the bike gets. After like 10 mins of good riding, it is gone and revs well in all gears.

Also I rode with the choke on halfway from town to the shore... I think that may explain some of my bad fuel consumption... I also refuelled the other night and I think I filled it up way more this time than I did last time...

What a huge learning curve I have undergone these past few weeks hahaha


One last thing, indicators on right side flash faster than the left side. However both front and rear indicator works AND they both flash at the same fast speed. However sometimes they fill flash slightly slower but still faster than the left side. The rear indicator housing on the right has been taped together as the bike has been dropped on that side. Loose wiring maybe? Still weird that both indicators flash fast though...

[imdying]

Cables do not stretch.

Post a picture of the cover where the cable goes into.

[iranana]

In regards to your clutch - my thinking is that the friction plates are too far worn. Had the exact same problem with my bike - it wouldn't engage till the lever was pretty much all the way out, and no amount of adjustment would resolve it. Pulled the clutch apart, measured the plates and sure enough, they were past their wear limit. Replaced the friction and steel plates and bingo, it was like new again. Don't be tempted to adjust it so that it engages sooner - that's just a quick and dirty fix and it will cause your clutch to drag when you pull the lever in, as you won't be getting the full amount of travel.

Check that the push rod is straight while you're at it too. A bent push rod will make you clutch feel lumpy and it won't engage evenly. Also, check that the pivot hole on the lever hasn't worn oval. That alone will make your clutch harder to adjust (makes determining the correct amount of free play a bit tricky).

When assembling your clutch again, make sure you torque the screws on the pressure plate the correct amount. Over tightening them will make the clutch stiff and it's very easy to snap a bolt or shear the threads. I don't know about GSX clutches, but on mine there was a particular pattern to the orientation of the steel plates. They had a tang that had to be offset by 60 degrees as each plate was stacked, so pay attention to how yours is put together while you're taking it apart... Even better, get a service manual so you know the correct torque ratings for everything and you won't have to store everything to memory

[biketimus_prime]

Cables do not stretch.

Post a picture of the cover where the cable goes into.

It just goes into the top of the cover above my gear change pedal.

In regards to your clutch - my thinking is that the friction plates are too far worn. Had the exact same problem with my bike - it wouldn't engage till the lever was pretty much all the way out, and no amount of adjustment would resolve it. Pulled the clutch apart, measured the plates and sure enough, they were past their wear limit. Replaced the friction and steel plates and bingo, it was like new again. Don't be tempted to adjust it so that it engages sooner - that's just a quick and dirty fix and it will cause your clutch to drag when you pull the lever in, as you won't be getting the full amount of travel.

Check that the push rod is straight while you're at it too. A bent push rod will make you clutch feel lumpy and it won't engage evenly. Also, check that the pivot hole on the lever hasn't worn oval. That alone will make your clutch harder to adjust (makes determining the correct amount of free play a bit tricky).

When assembling your clutch again, make sure you torque the screws on the pressure plate the correct amount. Over tightening them will make the clutch stiff and it's very easy to snap a bolt or shear the threads. I don't know about GSX clutches, but on mine there was a particular pattern to the orientation of the steel plates. They had a tang that had to be offset by 60 degrees as each plate was stacked, so pay attention to how yours is put together while you're taking it apart... Even better, get a service manual so you know the correct torque ratings for everything and you won't have to store everything to memory

Yeah I am considering changing the clutch after what FJRider has said too. I'm handy with a spanner so I should be okay. Should be easier than a car clutch.

So that raises a couple of questions

1. Where can I buy a clutch kit? I assume suzuki like car dealerships charge a ton for parts like that. Any aftermarket places in Auckland?

2. I can't find a service manual anywhere! Was my bike called something else apart from 2004 suzuki GSX250 invader? Is it similar to the Suzuki GSX250 Across? They're the same year bikes too...
Anyone got a manual maybe? I'll pay money!

[ducatilover]

Oh also the issue with revving seems to go away the warmer the bike gets. After like 10 mins of good riding, it is gone and revs well in all gears.

Also I rode with the choke on halfway from town to the shore... I think that may explain some of my bad fuel consumption... I also refuelled the other night and I think I filled it up way more this time than I did last time...

Let it warm up before riding it then. My Bandit sucks balls when it's cold, stumbles all over the place, so I let it warm up for a few minutes. Same with my ZX6, I wait till it has 50deg on the gauge before riding it

[imdying]

It just goes into the top of the cover above my gear change pedal.

That's all it looks like to you because you don't know what you're looking at. Good luck.

[biketimus_prime]

Let it warm up before riding it then. My Bandit sucks balls when it's cold, stumbles all over the place, so I let it warm up for a few minutes. Same with my ZX6, I wait till it has 50deg on the gauge before riding it

Yeah I think it was warm-up issues. It went so well in the countryside today. Still wont hurt to strip and clean carbs and stuff though, looks like it hasn't been touched ever!

That's all it looks like to you because you don't know what you're looking at. Good luck.

Seriously, there's nothing there except that cable going into the gearbox.

Here is a side view I got from google, you can see the black cable going in just behind the fairing

[imdying]

Well I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of that picture... is it too fucking hard to take a picture of the side cover? Is it the same as this one?

[biketimus_prime]

Well I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of that picture... is it too fucking hard to take a picture of the side cover? Is it the same as this one?

Sorry I was just too lazy both times to go to the garage and get a pic. Yep that's the one

[imdying]

Ok, see under that black plastic cap, on most Suzukis that is where the only critical clutch cable adjustment is. The rest are merely there for taking up slack in the cable. Go pop it off with a flat head screwdriver or a nail file of whatever, and take a piccy of it.

In theory, you will find a lock nut with a flat head screw up the middle of it. If you've got that sort of setup, I'll tell you set the leverage on that lever that converts the cables back and forth motion into the pushing motion that works on the clutches pressure plate.

Regardless of whether this works or not, you will need this to correctly set your clutch up after replacing it. I guess you could consider this the 'hidden adjustment' you mentioned earlier. I'm a bit disgusted that these guys haven't been through this with you, it's the only critical one out of the three adjustment points. Bit of luck it'll save you some money/effort, if not at least you'll know more about adjusting a clutch than this bunch of muppets.

[biketimus_prime]

Ok, see under that black plastic cap, on most Suzukis that is where the only critical clutch cable adjustment is. The rest are merely there for taking up slack in the cable. Go pop it off with a flat head screwdriver or a nail file of whatever, and take a piccy of it.

In theory, you will find a lock nut with a flat head screw up the middle of it. If you've got that sort of setup, I'll tell you set the leverage on that lever that converts the cables back and forth motion into the pushing motion that works on the clutches pressure plate.

Regardless of whether this works or not, you will need this to correctly set your clutch up after replacing it. I guess you could consider this the 'hidden adjustment' you mentioned earlier. I'm a bit disgusted that these guys haven't been through this with you, it's the only critical one out of the three adjustment points. Bit of luck it'll save you some money/effort, if not at least you'll know more about adjusting a clutch than this bunch of muppets.

Oh cool! I never noticed it was a rubber bit. I went and had a look just now and it is there for sure. I will have a look this weekend and take a pic to show what is underneath it, too dark in the garage at the moment.
Everyone has been really helpful, I guess they just don't know that adjustment exists, for my bike and a few others at least. There seems to be hardly any information about this bike, it's really annoying.

Thank you so much for your advice though. Sorry I was too lazy to take a picture at first...

[ducatilover]

Hah, I should have realised it has the same setup as my Bandit

[biketimus_prime]

Sure enough, here's what is behind that plastic cap

Let the games begin!

[imdying]

Sweet man, the rest is very easy. Once you've done this, you'll know whether your clutch is gone or not, and how to set it up correctly should you have to replace the clutch.

1) Wind the outer cable adjuster into the cover, most of the way in. You are looking to make sure the inner has no pressure on it.

2) Next wind the adjuster at the clutch perch (the lever and mount on the left hand bar) all the way in.

The adjuster at the cover is your main free play adjuster, the one at the perch is the convenient fine adjustment. Neither of these affect the way your clutch operates (unless the system is so badly adjusted as to let them preload the clutch push rod), all they do is adjust the free play in the cable.

The entire adjustment of the clutch is that lever inside the cover; that translates the movement back/forward of the cable into in/out for the push rod. If you remove that cover, you will see that lever. If you look at the two raised portions either side of the rubber cap, those are where the two bolts are on the inside that retain the lever to the cover, should you have any desire to remove it and clean/grease it (you should, but keep that for another day).

It looks sorta like this:


3) Hold the adjustment screw with a flat head screwdriver

4) Loosen (counter clockwise) the lock nut, whilst holding the screw from turning. Loosen it about a quarter turn.

5) Now, wind the adjustment screw in till it bottoms out. If it does not obviously bottom out, perhaps it was over adjusted (from your symptoms, it sounds like it is under adjusted), so back it out until it stops holding the push rod, which will probably feel like it starts to turn easier.

6) Once you have determined the point where the adjustment screw has just bottomed, back it off maybe an eighth of a turn. Now while you hold the screw at that point, tighten the lock nut. Once you figure out how it all works, you'll find your own happy place for how much slack to give it here, you just want that clearance.

If you could feel inside the cover at this point, you'd feel that lever that the clutch cable is on, can now jiggle a couple of mm. That is important, because if you over adjust the screw, it will bind up on the push rod, which means you're effectively riding your clutch all the time. It holds the pressure plate off slightly, which gives less clamp load, which means your bike may start slipping the clutch burning it out in short order.

Your symptoms suggest that you can't get sufficient adjustment, which means the push rod might not be getting sufficient travel, and what we're hoping is that's because nobody has adjusted this free play to compensate for the wear of the clutch... left alone long enough, you'll end up where you are. What's actually happening inside is that you need to bind up the cable's free play adjustment to wind the lever inside the sprocket cover, to make it take up the slack left by the adjustment screw not being wound in to just before it bottoms out (on the push rod). Probably the worst part about this is the absolute crap feel you get at the lever

7) Next you need to wind out the adjuster on the sprocket cover till you have nearly the right free play at the lever. The right free play at the lever is when if you tug on the outer cable at the perch adjuster, it pulls a few mm (so well inside the adjuster still) and then meets resistance.

At this point, you could probably just wind out the perch adjuster and call it a day. If you like to tinker, you'll find that means you probably get about half way or further through the perch adjustment. You can trade cover for perch adjustment as you please. Just remember to wind the perch adjuster all the way in before you alter the sprocket cover, and make sure that free play in the outer is there. Always have the free play; once your adjustment screw is set correctly, you can't ride up on the cable adjusters - there is no need in any case... it accomplishes nothing... it physically can't give more travel than proper adjustment, so you are already getting maximum leverage and travel. Go hard.