Final Round of Road Race Championships at Manfeild (29 March)

[Shaun Harris]

Good to see some Positives were learned from this Rob

[budda]

"Bad Decision" is your interpretation, and bears no relation to the facts. And I expect a riders representative to be a mediator, not judgemental.
In reality, the rider was entitled to re enter the course as they had not crossed the finish line. They continued thru the pits at 40kph, rejoined safely, finished the race in a safe manner with all due care and attention to other riders. After a meeting with the steward,who had consulted other officials in pit lane, this was confirmed to have been the Facts. In dispute was whether the rider had crossed the finish line while going thru the pits, as the transponder had been triggered. It was the stewards decision that they had not. Therefore the rider finished 12th instead of 5th.I dispute vigorously any suggestion this rider put anyone else at risk, while trying to complete a competition they had invested 6 months and countless dollars to compete in.

In any event, the matter was dealt with professionally at the time, and it shone light on some irregularities in the rule book, which hopefully will be helpful in the future.

Great to see that common-sense was applied. Given the facts as you've outlined them, The Steward was correct, in that the lap was not completed by crossing the finish line on the circuit.

I didn't personally see the "speed through pitlane" issue, but would imagine that if it was as excessive as some are claiming on here, The Steward would have dealt with the matter accordingly .......

What were the "irregularities" Rob ?

[Shaun Harris]

Great to see that common-sense was applied. Given the facts as you've outlined them, The Steward was correct, in that the lap was not completed by crossing the finish line on the circuit.

I didn't personally see the "speed through pitlane" issue, but would imagine that if it was as excessive as some are claiming on here, The Steward would have dealt with the matter accordingly .......

What were the "irregularities" Rob ?

Agreed mate, what you see on TV does not make it real, like rugby games

[RobGassit]

[QUOTE=budda;1130702722]Great to see that common-sense was applied. Given the facts as you've outlined them, The Steward was correct, in that the lap was not completed by crossing the finish line on the circuit.

I didn't personally see the "speed through pitlane" issue, but would imagine that if it was as excessive as some are claiming on here, The Steward would have dealt with the matter accordingly .......

What were the "irregularities"

It became apparent that the finish line( or line denoting the point where laps are counted) in pit lane only operates to count laps completed but will not count a finish lap.
Definitions of a " course" and "finish line" are clear but there is no definition for " pits" or " pitlane" even though they become live during an event. Discussions also revealed there may be no such thing as a " pit lane start" although as we know this happens routinely. Pit lane start procedure opens a world of interpretation by the COC. When to release the rider for instance, is often contentious. Chopper's release was interesting, and I have yet to find written guidelines for a procedure.
The Stewards discretion,, or as I call it"gods law" covers any blank or gray areas, but it would appear there may be room for some written operational guidelines. Bernie had it nailed, but is the head scratching at each meeting a good idea if we can make it black and white?

[budda]

[QUOTE=RobGassit;1130702749]

Great to see that common-sense was applied. Given the facts as you've outlined them, The Steward was correct, in that the lap was not completed by crossing the finish line on the circuit.

I didn't personally see the "speed through pitlane" issue, but would imagine that if it was as excessive as some are claiming on here, The Steward would have dealt with the matter accordingly .......

What were the "irregularities"

It became apparent that the finish line( or line denoting the point where laps are counted) in pit lane only operates to count laps completed but will not count a finish lap.
Definitions of a " course" and "finish line" are clear but there is no definition for " pits" or " pitlane" even though they become live during an event. Discussions also revealed there may be no such thing as a " pit lane start" although as we know this happens routinely. Pit lane start procedure opens a world of interpretation by the COC. When to release the rider for instance, is often contentious. Chopper's release was interesting, and I have yet to find written guidelines for a procedure.
The Stewards discretion,, or as I call it"gods law" covers any blank or gray areas, but it would appear there may be room for some written operational guidelines. Bernie had it nailed, but is the head scratching at each meeting a good idea if we can make it black and white?

The line on the TRACK is the only one that has any standing, any line in pitlane is NOT a finish line, as pitlane is NOT the racetrack ........ imagine : if it was, the pitlane speed limit would apply to the whole circuit - the drafting at 40kph would be quite something to see !!!!

As a Starter/CoC/Steward, I've always used the system where the last rider on the start grid must be PAST the position where the pitlane start party is positioned before the penalised rider is released. Due to the variations at each track, this position is different at each circuit ....... As Commissioner I discussed at length my personal opinion that these simply be done away with, as at some NZ circuits it is difficult to do so without endangering grid workers on the side of the track - some circuits have the track entry behind the start grid ( well, the best track in the country does anyway ) To my mind the naughty boy should start 10 grid positions behind the last rider on the grid proper - safe, clean and irrefutable. he can then be pinged for jumping the start etc etc just like all the others, and no-one is put in a perilous position. If that pisses him off - GOOD. Shouldn't put himself in that position by doing stuff contrary to the rules/Supp Regs/ Starters bad hair day

As for written guidelines etc - in well over 4 decades of skidding and crashing myself, always found doing exactly what we were told by the Steward and the Clerk of Course had a very meritorious effect on the day - no hassles, max fun.
Generally speaking, the Steward AND the CoC are experienced folk, and have a smattering of rulebook knowledge allied with a substantial helping of commonsense - be guided by them and enjoy your racing

[RobGassit]

[QUOTE=budda;1130702758]

The line on the TRACK is the only one that has any standing, any line in pitlane is NOT a finish line, as pitlane is NOT the racetrack ........ imagine : if it was, the pitlane speed limit would apply to the whole circuit - the drafting at 40kph would be quite something to see !!!!

As a Starter/CoC/Steward, I've always used the system where the last rider on the start grid must be PAST the position where the pitlane start party is positioned before the penalised rider is released. Due to the variations at each track, this position is different at each circuit ....... As Commissioner I discussed at length my personal opinion that these simply be done away with, as at some NZ circuits it is difficult to do so without endangering grid workers on the side of the track - some circuits have the track entry behind the start grid ( well, the best track in the country does anyway ) To my mind the naughty boy should start 10 grid positions behind the last rider on the grid proper - safe, clean and irrefutable. he can then be pinged for jumping the start etc etc just like all the others, and no-one is put in a perilous position. If that pisses him off - GOOD. Shouldn't put himself in that position by doing stuff contrary to the rules/Supp Regs/ Starters bad hair day

As for written guidelines etc - in well over 4 decades of skidding and crashing myself, always found doing exactly what we were told by the Steward and the Clerk of Course had a very meritorious effect on the day - no hassles, max fun.
Generally speaking, the Steward AND the CoC are experienced folk, and have a smattering of rulebook knowledge allied with a substantial helping of commonsense - be guided by them and enjoy your racing

As I said, "Gods Law". It's the constant replacement of the gods that leave the system vulnerable.
Like the god that checked our fuel illegally for instance.

[budda]

[QUOTE=RobGassit;1130702787]

As I said, "Gods Law". It's the constant replacement of the gods that leave the system vulnerable.
Like the god that checked our fuel illegally for instance.

Illegally ???????

[Drew]

Well, what a load of old cock this thread is.

Thought there might be some discussion on what I am told was fantastic racing. Guess not.

[Shaun Harris]

Well, what a load of old cock this thread is.

Thought there might be some discussion on what I am told was fantastic racing. Guess not.

more constructive added value by Drew, did you not race ya chair there then Drew?

[Drew]

more constructive added value by Drew, did you not race ya chair there then Drew?

Na, haven't figured out why it runs like a bag of shit after a few laps yet. Fucks me off no end, watching other people race.

[Shaun Harris]

Na, haven't figured out why it runs like a bag of shit after a few laps yet. Fucks me off no end, watching other people race.

Bummer. Your last comment is exactually why I do not go to watch the racing live, I still really want to race myself so feel it is best to stay away

[rustys]

Rob, everything has been well said here and your issue as been all sorted by those in charge on the day, so we will put that behind us.

What my personal concern is, that obviously pit lane is not the TRACK ok, you dont get the Checkered flag which is not recognised, travelling through PIT LANE ok, all which have been answered.
(just a senario here though) If i came around the last turn on the last lap, my kill switch lanyard happened to come unplugged killing power to the bike, i immediately pull off into pit lane for saftey reasons, without stopping plug the lanyard back in, power up and continue through pit lane at the correct speed and rejoin a finished race???, it sounds like you can do it by all accounts as said on here, this just does not make sense to me.
In reality i should have been stopped, and not joined a race that had finished, with bikes on a slow down lap, we all talk about differentials of speed and this is clearly the case in this senario.

I dont think i am being old and stupid here, i have been racing over 12 years, and seen some good mates i have raced with, who are no longer with us, and i just don't want any more like that to happen. Maybe this is something that MNZ needs to look at, another grey area ???

[jellywrestler]

Discussions also revealed there may be no such thing as a " pit lane start" although as we know this happens routinely. Pit lane start procedure opens a world of interpretation by the COC. When to release the rider for instance, is often contentious. Chopper's release was interesting, and I have yet to find written guidelines for a procedure.
The Stewards discretion,, or as I call it"gods law" covers any blank or gray areas, but it would appear there may be room for some written operational guidelines. Bernie had it nailed, but is the head scratching at each meeting a good idea if we can make it black and white?

the difficulty here is a rider is accelerating into the corner, with no flag point to indicate any incidents, try and work a rule that suits all tracks likke levels which the entry to the track from pitlane is after turn one and that'll be fun to write...

[jellywrestler]

If that pisses him off - GOOD.

geez that's a bit politically incorrect, you do realise that there are some Kitchen Bitches out there on the racetrack this century Mr Teletubbie?

[jellywrestler]

Well, what a load of old cock this thread is.

Thought there might be some discussion on what I am told was fantastic racing. Guess not.

what was cool Droopy, was that at riders briefing people were asked not to leave any old tyres in the pits as the club gets charged, as I left the track on monday I only saw one. Respect