Govt 'covering up' school funding plan

[mashman]

heh... nah, it'll turn the education system into the envy of the world

[blue rider]

not to worry Mashi, all the National Voters and Supporters have their kids in private schools or in Charter Schools were only good and excellent teachers work that will always make good pay because good results.

the Labour Voters and other rabble ...who cares.

[Flip]

The 2% elite thank the other 48% of working class folk who voted them more power, more money and a better class of education for their kids than the other 98% of Kiwis could ever get.

[Scuba_Steve]

Should change MP pays to performance based... i.e. stop paying them!

Imagine, for a moment, The Remuneration Authority (which sets salaries for Members of Parliament) decided to pay MP's based on their performance.

How would they measure that? Count the numbers of Committees they sit on? Hours spent dealing with concerns of people in their electorate? Number of Questions asked in the House ? Bills they managed to get through? Least use of parliamentary resources? What would be the measure of a good MP?

For the Authority to take any one of those measures and say "That's the one that will form the basis on which we will pay you " would be a nonsense .

It would also skew the behaviour of MPs to the point where parliament would become increasingly dysfunctional.

If an MP's pay, for example, was only based on performance at Question Time, then what already looks like a shambles would become completely unmanageable as 121 MPs all desperately wanted to be heard as many times as possible.

Yet that, apparently, is National's proposal for teachers.

To take one measure - NCEA results in this case - and pay teachers and schools on the basis of how well their pupils do on that test.

Never mind the socio-economic background of the children, the strengths and weaknesses of the local community , the unequal access to teaching resources, parents income and background ,multi-cultural language issues, and a host of other issues over which a teacher has no control, we'll pay teachers according to one test result.

Do we want to make sure our kids are getting the best education possible for them?

Of course.

Is there a silver competition bullet that will ensure that?

I don't think so.

Teaching is a complex job.

Learning is a complex business.

So here's an idea. Why don't we just ask the professionals - the teachers who deal with these issues everyday - to come up with the plan through their professional bodies the PPTA and NZEI - of how to deliver the best possible education system for our children and then take their advice ?

A little competition in life is a good thing , but as a nation we have achieved far more by cooperation

[hayd3n]

Should change MP pays to performance based... i.e. stop paying them!

meh i stopped going to schools years ago

[TheDemonLord]

So,

Shit teachers who can't teach will get paid less than good teachers who can teach.

And those that want to get paid more will have to put in more time and effort to get those dis-interested in learning interested.....

I fail to see a problem here

[Pwalo]

Bit of a straw man attack then. Accuse your opponent of having a plan, and then attack it. Don't even have to worry about what their actual policy is. It's still not a substitute for explaining what your plans are.

[bogan]

I fail to see a problem here

Dumb kids?

[bluninja]

Why shouldn't schools be treated like a business? After all they should be providing a service to the parents in educating their children. If all the parents are so blind that they perceive that the schools performance is in the test and exam results of their children then that's how schools will be measured. I would have loved to have a choice between educational establishments and opt my children into specialist classes and educate them within the family and extended community for other things. Sadly the state system is a one size fits all "you will do as we say because we know best" that seems to consider the skills of children belong to the government for future economic development through a trained workforce.

Wouldn't it be radical if all parents were given "education cash" to spend at schools purchasing the services and the teacher support they wanted for their children. I'm not talking about just having the money following the school roll, but being able to purchase lessons or courses at different establishments. The good teachers will have "full" classes, a good working environment, and good pay. The poor ones will have to improve or suffer.

Unfortunately we have been indoctrinated over generations that the current school systems are the best way to educate children, I don't believe they are. Many children endure and survive the system, many vote with their feet and truant on a daily basis, a minority are left damaged and destroyed by an education system where they don't fit.

[TheDemonLord]

Dumb kids?

Dumb Kids as in Kids with an IQ less than 100?
or Dumb kids as in kids uninterested in a subject because of substandard teaching by an uninterested teacher?
or Dumb kids with an average IQ but no interest in Maths or Science because they want to be a Gang Member?

statistically, the distribution of smart (greater than 100 IQ) to Dumb (less than 100 IQ) are evenly distributed on a Bell curve. As such, in a perfect world, dumb kids would go to dumb kids schools - where they would be taught differently to smart kids - using methods that work for those that are 'dumb' to achieve a basic level of education.

[bogan]

Dumb Kids as in Kids with an IQ less than 100?
or Dumb kids as in kids uninterested in a subject because of substandard teaching by an uninterested teacher?
or Dumb kids with an average IQ but no interest in Maths or Science because they want to be a Gang Member?

Indeed, bit unfair to cut a teacher's pay cos they live in a gangland.
Also, parents who reckon it is a teacher's sole responsibility for teaching their kids should never be given the opportunity to have any. Again, bit unfair to cut a teachers pay cos they work in an area populated by fuckwit parents.

[MSTRS:Me]

So,

Shit teachers who can't teach will get paid less than good teachers who can teach.

And those that want to get paid more will have to put in more time and effort to get those dis-interested in learning interested.....

Where was that said?

Ms Parata told the Herald on Sunday she was looking at funding schools according to the extent teachers had helped students learn over the course of six months or a year.

She didn't explain how that might be achieved.

Earlier reports on this subject were on the basis that schools with poor overall (academic?) achievement would have funding cuts. Schools DO NOT pay teachers directly.

[Akzle]

Should change MP pays to performance based... i.e. stop paying them!

scooby doobie, you forget, the remuneration authority is independent (tui), politicians have no say in it! They couldnt possibly reject the recomended pay rises....

[oldrider]

scooby doobie, you forget, the remuneration authority is independent (tui), politicians have no say in it! They couldnt possibly reject the recomended pay rises....

And if they don't do the silly dance that the electorate desires/demands they are toast at the next election, well that's a form of performance pay right there!

The only difference is that the organ grinder dances to the tune of the monkeys'!

[TheDemonLord]

Indeed, bit unfair to cut a teacher's pay cos they live in a gangland.
Also, parents who reckon it is a teacher's sole responsibility for teaching their kids should never be given the opportunity to have any. Again, bit unfair to cut a teachers pay cos they work in an area populated by fuckwit parents.

I am reminded of the scene in Ali G - In Da House about this - where it cuts to a scene where a teacher is doing a maths problem involving Weed.....

and I agree on your last point - Parents who aren't active in their childs education probably shouldn't be parents.....