Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

[Oakie]

"The role of the Government under a representative democracy is to represent the will of the people, not to negotiate a trade [TPP] deal in strict secrecy, sign on, and then tell the people they are supposed to represent to accept it. That form of governing has a name and it's certainly not called democracy..."

- Senator Ricky Muir, Victoria, Australia.

Not exactly a man with a lot of political credibility: (From Wiki):

Muir said that as a young man, he was interested in customising cars, but as he gained a family, he moved on to four-wheel drives as a way to explore the countryside. He wanted to keep the country open for four-wheel drives to explore. About four months before the election, he discovered the AMEP on social networking sites. He was preselected for the election without having met the party leaders. He had no political experience. He calls himself an "average Australian" and wanted to make "balanced decision which reflects on hopefully the everyday Australian".

Muir represented AMEP in Victoria at the 2013 federal election and won on a record-low primary vote of 0.51 percent or 17,122 first preferences (coming 13th out of 34 groups), getting to the 14.3 percent quota from 23 group voting ticket party preferences: Bank Reform Party, Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party, HEMP Party, Shooters and Fishers, Australian Stable Population Party, Senator Online, Building Australia Party, Family First Party, Bullet Train For Australia, Rise Up Australia Party, No Carbon Tax Climate Sceptics, Citizens Electoral Council, Palmer United Party, Democratic Labour Party, Katter's Australian Party, Socialist Equality Party, Australian Sex Party, Australian Voice Party, Wikileaks Party, Drug Law Reform, Stop CSG, Animal Justice Party, and the Australian Independents Party. The previous record for the lowest successful primary Senate vote for a party's lead candidate was held by the Nuclear Disarmament Party's Robert Wood who polled 1.5 percent in New South Wales in 1987, a double dissolution election. Independent Senator Nick Xenophon and larger parties including the incoming government are looking at changes to the group voting ticket system.

In October 2013 it was reported that the AMEP's Victorian State Council had been banned by the party's executive from contacting Muir since the election, and that Muir supported the executive's decision to suspend the State Council.[10][11] The Victorian branch of the party voted to disband itself and expel Muir in July 2014. Both the expulsion and the existence of the Victorian branch after October 2013 were not recognised by the federal party.[12]

On 10 October 2013 Muir announced he would enter into an alliance with the Palmer United Party.[13]

[gjm]

Not exactly a man with a lot of political credibility...

I realise that, and deliberately didn't mention it. Does his credibility mean that what he said is incorrect? I find myself disagreeing with much of what most politicians say, but that's because I believe in transparency and not obfuscation. (Nice word that!) Even if that means saying "Sorry, I can't discuss that," rather than lying and misleading.

The agreement would be fine if it didn't extend beyond trade agreements. However, and is the way (especially in US politics) the TPPA has many clauses and riders attached to it, most of which are geared towards benefiting huge corporations (with turnover exceeding the GDP of NZ) and not trade.

[Oakie]

I realise that, and deliberately didn't mention it. Does his credibility mean that what he said is incorrect? I find myself disagreeing with much of what most politicians say, but that's because I believe in transparency and not obfuscation. (Nice word that!) Even if that means saying "Sorry, I can't discuss that," rather than lying and misleading.

The agreement would be fine if it didn't extend beyond trade agreements. However, and is the way (especially in US politics) the TPPA has many clauses and riders attached to it, most of which are geared towards benefiting huge corporations (with turnover exceeding the GDP of NZ) and not trade.

His opinion is just as valuable as yours or mine as they are all what each of us believes ... even though we probably disagree. It's that to ascribe the quote to 'a senator' gives it credence it possibly doesn't deserve without knowing a bit about the guy. Bit like quoting that German chap who said " Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized" without actually mentioning the guy's surname was Hitler. (not necesarily disagreeing with uncle Adolf on that particular thought though.)

[ellipsis]

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https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/WikiLe...ter-051015.pdf


..........

[flyingcrocodile46]

.............


https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/WikiLe...ter-051015.pdf


..........

Thanks. A bit of a head fuck but it appears that much criteria as to meaningful definitions are either undefined and/or cross referenced to other TPPA clauses and many of the several earlier referenced international protocols/agreements, all of which will come down to subjective legal interpretation. I can't help but wonder if our state was previously bound to any of these earlier agreements and if not, what the implications may be.

IMO analysis of these agreements in and of themselves has only limited value because at the end of the day the problem with all of the clauses of the TTPA is the underlying right of the participating corporations to bring marginal or frivolous damages claims against the state within their own newly created tribunals (mostly made up of corporate sock puppets).

When the state loses the claims the tax slaves will be the people who pay. In the unlikely event that a state makes a successful claim against a corporation for any significant damages (ranging through to unlawful deaths through product contamination etc) the corporation will protect its shareholders and go into bankruptcy. Once again, the tax slaves will be the people who pay.

Under current international and state laws the Govt (and its ever-paying tax slaves) are (by comparison) nearly impossible to successful sue.

[Brian d marge]

bye internet , you tube ..........porn

its been nice knowing you

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...rights-chapter

if its claimed to be copyright then it can be ( must be?) taken down .... could only take one complaint on youtube to have that vid taken down

Stephen

[mashman]

The TPP. The closed loop for money printing. 1 secret court controlling the monetary fate of every country. What could possibly go wrong.

[Brian d marge]

The TPP. The closed loop for money printing. 1 secret court controlling the monetary fate of every country. What could possibly go wrong.

Run out of lapis lazuri for the blue

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[gsxr]

The TPP. The closed loop for money printing. 1 secret court controlling the monetary fate of every country. What could possibly go wrong.

Come 06/02/2016 we are all fucked so why discuss it It has already been decided.

Just saying .....

[Brian d marge]

Come 06/02/2016 we are all fucked so why discuss it It has already been decided.

Just saying .....

Has my credit card bill been sent to the wrong address again

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[mashman]

Run out of lapis lazuri for the blue

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Damned primary colours are so hard to replace. Mine'd you, we could always VR into a game to get that blue blue feeling.

Come 06/02/2016 we are all fucked so why discuss it It has already been decided.

Just saying .....

More than likely. Still though, it can be undone just as easily .

[Oakie]

Yawn. More worried about the black spots on my broad beans than the TPPA.

Oakie unwittingly opens the door for someone to blame the TPPA for the black spots on his broad beans

[Brian d marge]

Yawn. More worried about the black spots on my broad beans than the TPPA.

Oakie unwittingly opens the door for someone to blame the TPPA for the black spots on his broad beans

Thats ok
Strangely solving the black spots on the beans is a skill that will soon be in demand

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[Brian d marge]

He was found by the Bureau of Statistics to be One against whom there was no official complaint, And all the reports on his conduct agree That, in the modern sense of an old-fashioned word, he was a saint, For in everything he did he served the Greater Community. Except for the War till the day he retired He worked in a factory and never got fired, But satisfied his employers, Fudge Motors Inc. Yet he wasn't a scab or odd in his views, For his Union reports that he paid his dues, (Our report on his Union shows it was sound) And our Social Psychology workers found That he was popular with his mates and liked a drink. The Press are convinced that he bought a paper every day And that his reactions to advertisements were normal in every way. Policies taken out in his name prove that he was fully insured, And his Health-card shows he was once in hospital but left it cured. Both Producers Research and High-Grade Living declare He was fully sensible to the advantages of the Instalment Plan And had everything necessary to the Modern Man, A phonograph, a radio, a car and a frigidaire. Our researchers into Public Opinion are content That he held the proper opinions for the time of year; When there was peace, he was for peace: when there was war, he went. He was married and added five children to the population, Which our Eugenist says was the right number for a parent of his generation. And our teachers report that he never interfered with their education. Was he free? Was he happy? The question is absurd: Had anything been wrong, we should certainly have heard.


W H Auden


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[pete376403]

Coming soon, to a government near you - endless litigation, which will be paid for by the taxpayer.

TransCanada, the big Canadian energy giant, announced it was going to sue the U.S. government for $15 billion for not going forward with the Keystone XL pipeline. And that’s under NAFTA’s investment protection provisions. The TPP has very similar provisions.