Riding tired? Please don't

[avgas]

You don't know that. It's all conjecture.

Rider 1 passed 3 cars in one go, at open road speeds,
Rider 2 attempted, failed and got stuck between cars 2 and 3. Then reattempted as rider 1 was rounding a corner.
Failed to see an on-coming car (Van no less) that had just come past rider one, but reattempted to pass car 1 anyway.

Outside their limits.

Unless the story is in-fact lies.......at which case the actual scenario is far worse.

Doesn't really matter any way - he died getting it wrong. Blaming tiredness is a good enough excuse as any.

Note I have not mentioned at any point that this "maneuver" was attempted anywhere else - which would imply conjecture.

So all I know is a) telling the truth, and the rider was outside their limits or b) cops not telling the truth and his dad was far worse condition than he admits.
If either of these were not the case - his dad would still be alive. The proof is in the pudding.

[James Deuce]

Rider 1 passed 3 cars in one go, at open road speeds,
Rider 2 attempted, failed and got stuck between cars 2 and 3. Then reattempted as rider 1 was rounding a corner.
Failed to see an on-coming car (Van no less) that had just come past rider one, but reattempted to pass car 1 anyway.

Outside their limits.

Unless the story is in-fact lies.......at which case the actual scenario is far worse.

Doesn't really matter any way - he died getting it wrong. Blaming tiredness is a good enough excuse as any.

Note I have not mentioned at any point that this "maneuver" was attempted anywhere else - which would imply conjecture.

So all I know is a) telling the truth, and the rider was outside their limits or b) cops not telling the truth and his dad was far worse condition than he admits.
If either of these were not the case - his dad would still be alive. The proof is in the pudding.

What are you trying to say? That claiming tiredness as a contributing factor isn't conjecture? It is. The whole argument is rendered moot at the point where someone tried to make this the core of a "Don't ride when tired" campaign. I've seen people fresh, eager and happy, smeared across the front of an oncoming van in almost the same situation. It's doesn't take tiredness for a motorcyclist to throw common sense to the wind in the attempt to keep up with a mate.

The only proven contributing factor in that scenario is a dangerous overtake.

[avgas]

Tired? He was old and not taking it easy! He wasn't having a nap - he simply no longer understood his limits, got it wrong, ended up dead. Fact of riding.

You don't know that. It's all conjecture.

What are you trying to say? That claiming tiredness as a contributing factor isn't conjecture? It is. The whole argument is rendered moot at the point where someone tried to make this the core of a "Don't ride when tired" campaign. I've seen people fresh, eager and happy, smeared across the front of an oncoming van in almost the same situation. It's doesn't take tiredness for a motorcyclist to throw common sense to the wind in the attempt to keep up with a mate.

The only proven contributing factor in that scenario is a dangerous overtake.

Almost like he was not taking it easy, and went outside his limits.........

[Berries]

With rider 1 being a cop I thought he was dicing with death himself passing 3 cars.

Overtaking three cars in a row is hardly dicing with death.

[Big Dog]

You'd be surprised what you can surmise, and what conclusions you land at when it is someone close that you would not land at if you were agnostic to the situation.


Rider fatigue / tiredness would be a factor. How big is relative to the rider and pure speculation with out a survivor.

Base on the information provided it was by no means the only factor present.

Keeping up with son is probably higher up. Does not change the fact fatigue plays a factor in a lot of shit decisions.

The only fact we have is a bad call led to the death of a rider.


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[Berries]

Good luck with hoping the first or second car if they attempt to pull out to overtake the third will always see you then.

Anyone who assumes that a car driver is going to see them, anywhere, is going to end up getting hurt at some point.

I have read where a biker was not seen when attempting an overtake of more than one vehicle and ended up dead due to not being seen by one of the cars he was attempting to pass.

Oh dear. Perhaps there were clues well before he began the overtake? Perhaps there were clues while he was overtaking? If you are going to put yourself in potential harms way it is up to you to make sure you can do it safely and not rely on others to look out for you.

[Berries]

This section is called Survival Skills. If an indicator is the only clue you are looking for then I shake my virtual head. You should be looking at the positioning and behaviour of the vehicles as soon as you see them. You should see whether they are looking to overtake, whether they are hanging back and taking it easy. You should see them looking in the mirrors, closing the gap, moving left, moving right, slowing down, speeding up. There are so many clues that a rider should be looking for. The indicators are way too late even if they are used.

Circumstances would dictate whether you leapfrog a queue one by one or just nail it past several of them Both methods have hazards, both methods can get you killed. Obviously the third option is to sit behind them and pretend that you are a car.

[Erelyes]

This section is called Survival Skills. If an indicator is the only clue you are looking for then I shake my virtual head. You should be looking at the positioning and behaviour of the vehicles as soon as you see them. You should see whether they are looking to overtake, whether they are hanging back and taking it easy. You should see them looking in the mirrors, closing the gap, moving left, moving right, slowing down, speeding up. There are so many clues that a rider should be looking for. The indicators are way too late even if they are used.

Circumstances would dictate whether you leapfrog a queue one by one or just nail it past several of them Both methods have hazards, both methods can get you killed. Obviously the third option is to sit behind them and pretend that you are a car.

Absolutely. An anecdotal example -

Along the Southern M'way (Dunedin) heading to work today, in that 80k stretch between Caversham and Andy Bay Rd, in the drizzle, I was in the r/h lane coming up on a rubbish truck in the l/h lane.

I had kinda figured he would be switching into the R/h lane, trucks switch into that lane to turn onto Andy Bay Rd all the time. Sure enough, as I approached I saw that his r/h indicator on his front fender was on, but both the ones at the rear of the truck were out. He may have seen me, but without knowing for sure, I dropped speed and changed into the l/h lane behind him (traffic was clear behind me).

[bogan]

Not all of us have the mind reading skills of other drivers. The fact you agree with me its hazardous despite your mind reading skills just goes to prove my original point multi vehicle overtakes are dicing with death.

Situational awareness is OP, but it is hardly mind reading. Perhaps you should take the time to learn to do it? the dogs may thank you for it

[bogan]

You obviously don't have a clue as to how fast some animals can run out across the road but maybe with your mind reading ability you do which I don't have. It would prevent a lot of accidents if we all did eh?

What I'm saying, is the people you want to take survival skill advice from, are those who learn from any accident, instead of just saying it was unavoidable cos the little rascal runs vewy fast.

I happen to have enough situational awareness to have slowed down on a number of occasions when an animal has indeed run out in front of me. Learn it also, and stopping running over poor little pooches.

[The Reibz]

Cop came out of a corner on a Hayabusa and passed 3 cars without breaking the speed limit. Sounds legit

[bogan]

I think you have just been lucky and there has been a few times myself when I have spotted an animal and have been able to slow in time so I like you also have "situational awareness" but you are obviously yet to find out some situations can happen very much faster than others and not just with animals either.

I think if you spent as much effort increasing your safe riding ability as you do trying to justify its mediocrity, your advice might eventually be worth listening to. As it is now, your reliance on the obvious things like indicators and speed zone signage is not up to a safe standard of defensive riding.

[bogan]

But I have said I am not a mind reader like you and neither are most other motorists otherwise there would never be accidents would there? As a matter of interest what do you do when you come up behind a car that stops in the middle of the road without indicating a change of direction, do you wait for them to make a turn before deciding to pass or do a mind read and pass anyway in the hope you have got it right?

Looking at vehicle cues like wheel rotation/direction, driver attention, driver's eyesight, driver's movement is not mind reading; that is just defensive riding. Get good you scrub.

[AllanB]

I drove to the doctor today as I have been feeling unwell. He said I have fatigue and dehydration.

I drove home to have a drink.

Cars are so much better than motorcycles when one becomes very tired while driving - you can just pull over and have a nap in them - crack a window though. Years back while riding on a long trip I did pull over into a country church and had a nap in the sun in the church grounds.

[bogan]

After focussing on all that I am surprised you are able to be able to look where you are going and often there can be situations where you have to be able to look out for more than one car. I still say you have just got lucky with your situational awareness/mind reading.

Nobody said it would be easy, start off by looking up spotlight/floodlight vision/attention management. I couldn't give a shit what muppets like you want to put down to luck or lack thereof, but passing on your shit attitudes to other riders is not something I'm ok with.