Riding tired? Please don't

[Hashbandicoot]

I'm not getting involved with discussing some of the other posts here - its easy to pick apart comments which are of absolutely no value.

In my limited experience (about 5 hours!):

You cannot rely on other people to behave as they should, doing so invites injury or death.

For the example being discussed if I were riding and wished to overtake 3 vehicles (which I have yet to do at speed, but I'm using my imagination) I would make sure there would be somewhere for me to go should one of the cars pull out. I also tend to glance down at the front wheels as they give as clear an indication of any flashing light as to the potential direction of a car.

Someone mentioned that there should always be room for self improvement (or something like that) and I agree. Sure I'm new to riding but I'm not a moron, there is always scope to better your technique with everything; not just riding. Throwing up obstacles within your own mind about how skilled you are able to become is foolhardy. If you do not believe you will improve and become a more competent rider then I don't think you will, and as far as I'm concerned a mindset like that makes you a danger to yourself and others.

[haydes55]

Those that claim passing 3 cars is safe in this thread rely on being able to predict the thinking of the drivers they pass but predictions can be got wrong too. The idea of having somewhere to go if a car pulls out would not give you anytime if they happed to hit you first and if you could avoid it hitting rough terrain at over 100km an hr at the side of the road could be deadly too.

You're a bit special aren't you?

For the record, my best was overtaking a queue of about 10-15 cars on one straight on my old klx300.

It's not rocket science, I know every single car didn't see me and I just watched the front wheels of each car I approached. Glancing at the driver in their mirrors and windows. I rode right on the right side of the oncoming lane, so even if a car was to jump into my lane at sonic speed, they wouldn't hit me.

$20 says the next person to be involved in a crash from this site will be Cassina, for having the stupidest attitude towards self preservation ever.

It's not mind reading, it's reading the situation, if you can't read a situation then you are just as good at riding as a total noob. What did you learn in your 30 years of experience? Cause it sounds like that new guy with 5hours experience is already learning more than you.

Take a hint when every single person has a different opinion to you.

[Tazz]

How do you cope passing parked cars in large numbers Cass? Same principle...

[ellipsis]

...it's not a well known fact that at any speed in excess of 104kph conjecture turns into fact and that cassina should be in bed before dark, 'cos you never know what could go wrong out there...especially if there are more than two vehicles on the road, and they were moving...

[russd7]

Those that claim passing 3 cars is safe in this thread rely on being able to predict the thinking of the drivers they pass but predictions can be got wrong too. The idea of having somewhere to go if a car pulls out would not give you anytime if they happed to hit you first and if you could avoid it hitting rough terrain at over 100km an hr at the side of the road could be deadly too.

I do beleive that you do not have the experience you claim to have, having been on the outside of three abreast on more than one occasion and had cars pull in to my line as i am overtaking and had time to brake, i can assure you that you do have time to react as a car pulls out to overtake in front of you, they do not move at the speed of light and if you are aware of what is going on around you then it is pretty bloody obvious when a car is starting to over take, everyone is going on about watching front wheels and looking for drivers eyes but i tend to notice the obvious, the fuckers tend to start to speed up and start to move over in the lane, fuck watching for front wheels to turn when im already doing just a little over 100kms/hr (because i wouldn't want to speed ). and yes i do pass lines of cars. but i also ride a litre bike and don't tend to fuck around once i start an overtaking process.
I do wonder why Cassina rides bikes as he obviously gets no joy from doing so and obviously does a lot of washing.

[Big Dog]

Would have to agree with you that a 1000cc bike would give you a better chance of surviving doing multiple vehicle overtakes should shit happen but I am getting the impression that many on here only learn from their own crashes and not crashes of others even if they should witness other crashes. I agree also about those who look at the drivers and their wheels as they go past as they would likely end up having a head on with a vehicle coming the other way which on the balance of probability is far more likely to happen than a side swipe from 1 of the overtaking vehicles.

Not if you're paying attention.

I am alternating between focusing on my mirrors, speedo 12 seconds ahead ( or as close as possible ), 4 seconds ahead, last known threat, most probable threat and the nearest driver(s). I don't move my head for this scan. Most of the time I don't move my eyes either unless something stands out as needing closer attention. My eyes are always pointing where I want to go.
I do shift my focus. This takes practice but you can look at your speedo without taking your eyes off the road if you know roughly where each of the speed limits looks like on an analogue clock. If you are focusing 12 seconds down the road you still see the drivers hands beside you move their hands on the wheel. A good indicator they are now your greatest threat.
Frequency of the scan depends on the current threat level.
Length on each step depends on current perceived threats. Eg cycle is slower in open wide boulevards at low speed with no traffic, very frenetic when commuting.
Cycle gets broken occasionally for head checks, fuel gauge checks, vista enjoyment.

It can be very tiring using active threat analysis at first. Worth it, far more worth it than anodised brake levers.


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[FJRider]

I am alternating between focusing on my mirrors,

An Italian saying ... What is behind is not important. What is in front will slow you more ...

speedo 12 seconds ahead ( or as close as possible ),

Don't try to count so high ... you haven't got enough fingers ...

4 seconds ahead, last known threat, most probable threat and the nearest driver(s). I don't move my head for this scan. Most of the time I don't move my eyes either unless something stands out as needing closer attention.

The known/seen threats are seldom an issue. The ones you need to watch are the one's you missed ...

My eyes are always pointing where I want to go.

It's rude to point. MY eyes don't point ... they LOOK ...

I do shift my focus. This takes practice but you can look

No need to Focus on anything ... look for clues to possible problems. Scan not focus.

If you are focusing 12 seconds down the road you still see the drivers hands beside you move their hands on the wheel. A good indicator they are now your greatest threat.

12 seconds down the road is NOT beside you.

The things you really need worry is within one hundred meters of you ... (front or back) ... and where you get your next tank of gas. The rest is unimportant.

Frequency of the scan depends on the current threat level.

If there is anybody within one hundred meters of you ... they ARE a threat to YOU ... so WATCH them.

Length on each step depends on current perceived threats.

You DON'T stop looking for threats ... Be it sheep (or any other wildlife), Cars/trucks, road damage/obstacles, weather .... or ANY other "Thing" that may influence you movements ... Stop looking and you will die. SOON .. !!!

Eg cycle is slower in open wide boulevards at low speed with no traffic, very frenetic when commuting.
Cycle gets broken occasionally for head checks, fuel gauge checks, vista enjoyment.

Keep looking anyway. You WILL live longer.

It can be very tiring using active threat analysis at first. Worth it, far more worth it than anodised brake levers.

Harden up ... and .. anodized brake levers are cool ... geez ... you don't know anything. (your spelling needs work too)

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Your phone can't spell either ...

Sounds to me you would also enjoy being a front line soldier as that's what they spend their time doing too looking for threats. The difference between the riding that you enjoy and my riding is i like to keep a good distance from threats especially when doing 100k or more and I do ride bikes a bit smaller than yours which maybe you would find more risky in threatening situations.

I enjoy living too ... so I keep looking for things that may impact on that living ... with the intent that my living continues. I shudder to think what your intent is. (apart from improving your counting fingers/seconds ability)

[FJRider]

Are you on herbal highs or something to be putting my name to the other posters posts?

Everything I quoted was from YOUR post. If it wasn't your words ... learn (fast) to quote correctly.

As I have said before ... you still have much to learn. You've proved me right ... again.

[Madness]

[Big Dog]

Sounds to me you would also enjoy being a front line soldier as that's what they spend their time doing too looking for threats. The difference between the riding that you enjoy and my riding is i like to keep a good distance from threats especially when doing 100k or more and I do ride bikes a bit smaller than yours which maybe you would find more risky in threatening situations.

Riding smaller bikes does not increase the threat level. It does have a psychological effect on the rider and it does take away a few options. It also adds a few.

Changing direction, speed, attitude, pitch, and yaw are much easier with less momentum, gyroscopic and other forces to overcome.

On bigger bikes these changes can be a lot more brute force. Bigger bikes have bigger brakes because they need them. Same with engines.
On a big bike you may need to scrub off a little speed to achieve what was simple smaller bike.


Neither is right or better. They are just different. I probably have more fun on my dr350. Which is why until it started losing oil it was my main bike.

A need to cover the full length of the southern motorway 2x a day is the reason for the 1300. But that is another longer story. Basically if you know your limits and add slowly to your toolbox of skills you will find you will be able to cope in any situation. Be it riding a 1300 in tight circles to demonstrate counter steer or riding to cape Rienga on a 110.
A trade does not go and buy all his tools day one. He goes and gets what he needs for day one and then adds to his toolbox as he can, hopefully before he needs to and finds he can't.

Biker survival skills are the same. You get what you need for day one - basic handling skills.
You add to that via learner periods, cbtas, restricted periods, defensive driving courses, Nass, sass, books and forums. In the end we hope that when we are at the top of the ladder we have the right tools in our belt.


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[Big Dog]

An Italian saying ... What is behind is not important. What is in front will slow you more ...



Don't try to count so high ... you haven't got enough fingers ...



The known/seen threats are seldom an issue. The ones you need to watch are the one's you missed ...



It's rude to point. MY eyes don't point ... they LOOK ...



No need to Focus on anything ... look for clues to possible problems. Scan not focus.



12 seconds down the road is NOT beside you.

The things you really need worry is within one hundred meters of you ... (front or back) ... and where you get your next tank of gas. The rest is unimportant.



If there is anybody within one hundred meters of you ... they ARE a threat to YOU ... so WATCH them.



You DON'T stop looking for threats ... Be it sheep (or any other wildlife), Cars/trucks, road damage/obstacles, weather .... or ANY other "Thing" that may influence you movements ... Stop looking and you will die. SOON .. !!!



Keep looking anyway. You WILL live longer.



Harden up ... and .. anodized brake levers are cool ... geez ... you don't know anything. (your spelling needs work too)



Your phone can't spell either ...




I enjoy living too ... so I keep looking for things that may impact on that living ... with the intent that my living continues. I shudder to think what your intent is. (apart from improving your counting fingers/seconds ability)

To clarify, not all of these things get the same duration of attention and peripheral vision is adequate for new threat detection.
My eyes do point, the focused portion is not always the centre of the field I vision.

Anodised is English. Anodized is murkin and autocorrect fixes that.

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[bogan]

There is no guarantee that anyone no matter how skilled at riding they claim will be able to cope in any situation as some situations can happen faster than others. Those making such claims have possibly had a few close calls but felt as they didn't come off they they would be able to handle any future situation as well. I just call that being over confident in ones ability.

I just call that, get good you pleb.

[Big Dog]

There is no guarantee that anyone no matter how skilled at riding they claim will be able to cope in any situation as some situations can happen faster than others. Those making such claims have possibly had a few close calls but felt as they didn't come off they they would be able to handle any future situation as well. I just call that being over confident in ones ability.

On the contrary.

I don't believe myself to be anything special. As a rider I am pretty average.

I do believe in doing every thing possible and never giving up.

I have made some bad calls, and had some bad calls made for me. The outcome was
The same. Bike less pretty and some time off work.


I also have learned from those experiences.

I also have had some very close calls, calls that I believe without my level of self belief that I have earned through hours of practice I would not have made the right calls in some very hairy situations.
Some include moments when all hope felt lost, bit I kept trying to save it and did by the narrowest of margins.

There have also been a fair few "fark" moments.
Moments that are really outside of. Control and survival is luck.

Are you going to be the tradesman who hopes he has a hammer when he gets to the top of the ladder or are you going to be the sort that goes to the top of the ladder then wonders why his tool belt is still at home? Why he hasn't bought the hammer yet?

You can't save them all, but if you don't try you won't save any.


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[James Deuce]

glad you agree some situations are outside of our control as I said there are some on here that believe there is no such thing. As for skill level a lot depends on how close to the limit you want to get and not all motorcyclists feel it is necessary to be able to pass 3 cars in a row while approaching a bend to enjoy motorcycling. They are more likely to end up in the cemetery at some stage than those who don't.

You are aiming that at whom? Speak up, cease the circumlocution. Say something definitive instead of ill-informed and platitudinous.

[Erelyes]

Everything I quoted was from YOUR post. If it wasn't your words ... learn (fast) to quote correctly.

Cassina, you'll be needing some cream for that burn