A new mid-capacity class?

**CHOPPA** · 6th April 2014, 22:30

Originally Posted by richban

Hang on a minute I thought you said 70hp. Lap me! I feel a foolish bet coming on.

Ah yeah 70hp

**Damien_Toman** · 6th April 2014, 22:58

Richban on a bucket is a great sight to behold:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dty1/8...57633238414607

He tends to lap, rather than the other!

On a big bucket he would also be competitive with anything that has similar horsepower. I think we should have a Moto3 class - big buckets

.

Damien

**CHOPPA** · 6th April 2014, 23:47

Originally Posted by Damien_Toman

Richban on a bucket is a great sight to behold:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dty1/8...57633238414607

He tends to lap, rather than the other!

On a big bucket he would also be competitive with anything that has similar horsepower. I think we should have a Moto3 class - big buckets

.

Damien

Yup I have raced him on a bucket. Ill take my chances

**Damien_Toman** · 7th April 2014, 00:03

Moto3-style 250 single 4-stroke class, with slicks, open to all mods - incl MX engines, including naked, rather than a new 600cc variation?

**mr bucketracer** · 7th April 2014, 07:39

i think chuck the boring looking things in the protwins , leave the f3 aloan, at least i can tell one rider from the other

**budda** · 7th April 2014, 07:41

Originally Posted by Damien_Toman

Moto3-style 250 single 4-stroke class, with slicks, open to all mods - incl MX engines, including naked, rather than a new 600cc variation?

Ever READ the rules we brought in YEARS ago to allow exactly that ???????

**Shaun Harris** · 7th April 2014, 08:10

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

I was cringing just writing that title

haha

Im gonna be selfish and ask that you just discuss this idea and not what you your alternative ideas for a mid sized class like production this or that.

So how do you see the HP out put being policed dude? as every dyno for a start gives different readings. " Trying to respond as per your request on this subject"

**Billy** · 7th April 2014, 08:11

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

I think get rid of F3 and Pro Twin at a National level completely Scotty. 1 year all in combined phase in...

250/300/500 Learner Class

Moto 3 / 125s

600 Restricted Class

600 Expert / 600 Supersport Combined

1000 Expert / 1000 Superbike Combined

So,

During the recently completed NZSBK series,Where we had up to 50% more entries at some rounds and an increase overall,The best racing we've seen for many years and a plan going forward,Somehow you think its a good idea to change everything BUT the class that was struggling for numbers????I don't disagree with the lightweight class,In fact it was already being discussed but not combining it with 250 Production.
No need to reinvent the wheel until we get into the position the Aussies are at the moment.

**scott411** · 7th April 2014, 08:14

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

That is great but IMO it doesnt fit with the Superbike national series. I think there should be an alternative series that caters for the more diverse classes ie post classic, classics, F3, Superlite, Naked and Twins, sidecars.

In fact if they were separate I guarantee id be a starter in one of those classes in the other series. Prob naked or twins.

Motocross nationals seem to be on the up and up, clear class progression, modern familiar bikes.

I dont think we could handle another national series, there are plenty of club series out there if you feel you need more racing, with the Tri/Suzuki series and the nationals its a good mix,

as for Motocross, I dont think its as rosie as you paint it, but I agree its getting better, but no where near the numbers we had in the late 90's early 2000's when me and you were banging bars in it, and thats at club level and national level, the junior fields at the moment are pretty average numbers wise, but hopefully as the economy gets better the numbers will as well,

as for F3, i tend to agree with saving it, I like the fact their are different bikes in it, i think it would be just has hard to explain why the bikes that look just the same as the 600's, are way slower and sound horrible,

also, where would these bikes race at club level? as no one is going to build a bike to race 4 meetings a year,

**jellywrestler** · 7th April 2014, 08:45

Originally Posted by scott411

as for F3, i tend to agree with saving it, I like the fact their are different bikes in it, i think it would be just has hard to explain why the bikes that look just the same as the 600's, are way slower and sound horrible,

Anyone remember the famous Katana 550 class, they weren't competitive in the 550 or 600 class of the day and didn't appeal to anyone.
At the end of the day it wasn't worth a cunt full of cold snow. F3 is a great class for people who want to develop their bikes and for bikes out there that don't fit within the narrow guidelines of the other classes.

**Shaun Harris** · 7th April 2014, 08:59

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

Anyone remember the famous Katana 550 class, they weren't competitive in the 550 or 600 class of the day and didn't appeal to anyone.
At the end of the day it wasn't worth a cunt full of cold snow. F3 is a great class for people who want to develop their bikes and for bikes out there that don't fit within the narrow guidelines of the other classes.

Agree with you and scott re F 3

**scott411** · 7th April 2014, 09:07

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

Anyone remember the famous Katana 550 class, they weren't competitive in the 550 or 600 class of the day and didn't appeal to anyone.
At the end of the day it wasn't worth a cunt full of cold snow. F3 is a great class for people who want to develop their bikes and for bikes out there that don't fit within the narrow guidelines of the other classes.

i think the CBR500 class (or NInja 300 class) would be the same, it would work while someone was putting money into it, then die as soon as that cash went away,

for reference, see this spec class in car racing here, anyone remember the Nissan sentra's, Suzuki Swifts, Mini Coopers, etc, the latest one they have is the Toyota 86's, which will run for as long as toyota will pay the bills, I dont see it as a long term solution for anything,

the reason the 250 proddy is working is because its easy to get a Ninja 250 because a shit load of them were sold between 08-10, and they are easy to find, and cheap to build and run,

**budda** · 7th April 2014, 10:12

Originally Posted by CHOPPA

I was cringing just writing that title

haha

I have had an idea that id spoken with a few people about so I think it warrants the conversation on here see if anyone could raise potential pit falls or engine problems that I hadnt thought of. Im gonna be selfish and ask that you just discuss this idea and not what you your alternative ideas for a mid sized class like production this or that.

The concept is basically just a supersport bike with nominated size restricters in the intake to limit the HP to around 70hp. Much like what they do in the UK for there LAMS bike laws...

http://www.fiinternational.com/our-products.asp

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBR-...item338c00ae50

That way kids stepping off 250s, 125s etc could get on a 600 thats either done its dash in Supersport or they can go with a longer term plan and set a bike up for Supersport and then run restricters. It would be the best way to ezz them into racing a big bike so they get used to the chassis without all the power on tap and then its a very easy step to the next class, supersport. 2 steps with only 1 bike...

Also very easy to check if anyone is cheating just pull off manifold and measure.

Basically same concept as OZZYS 450 but just a little bit easier.

Thoughts??

Well aware this comes across as a cockhead question Chop, but sobeit ....... seriously -
When you were coming up through the Jumping Bike classes ( as I did too ) would you have jumped at the chance of moving to the next big Class if the bikes were restricted to only 70% of their power until "someone" deemed that you could handle it, and could adjust the suspension properly ?

**The Chow** · 7th April 2014, 10:16

Originally Posted by budda

Ever READ the rules we brought in YEARS ago to allow exactly that ???????

doh: STOP IT BUDDA! you are asking people to read the MOMS (or rule book if you didn't know.)

I think Sloan has a good point , THIS IS JUST AT CURRENT NATIONAL LEVEL he is talkng about. May be a second system for F3 etc , the bikes are old in General. The Winners bike this year won ten years ago , also , second place was made from spares!!!

Oh well another good idea that will probably have the great Kiwi knocking machine going full tit. God forbid we change anything just to try and make a small change in mind set. Congrats to the commission who change the Superbike and Supersport rules a few years back , their vision paid off with decent feilds in both classes for several years after. At the same time the rules were changed for F3/Superlite and the numbers did NOT grow same with Pro Twin they have been static in numbers for years now.. Sometimes change does work other times not so much.

**jellywrestler** · 7th April 2014, 10:19

Originally Posted by The Chow

doh: STOP IT BUDDA! you are asking people to read the MOMS (or rule book if you didn't know.)

I think Sloan has a good point , THIS IS JUST AT CURRENT NATIONAL LEVEL he is talkng about. May be a second system for F3 etc , the bikes are old in General. The Winners bike this year won ten years ago , also , second place was made from spares!!!

yip and a 6 yr old bike got a lap record in supers and adam unsworths sidecar is over 25 yrs old and still has the lap record at paeroa........