Give me some tips for riding in the rain!

[biketimus_prime]

Yeah I think best is for me to practice more with my front brake and see how far I can go before locking up. During the riding course we practiced using the front only, rear only then both. My bike stopped better using both, but at the time the rear locked up before the front, the instructors though something was up with my front brake and it turned out the front brakes weren't bled properly when the previous owner had the service done (When I go home and did the bleed on the front lots of bubbles came out). They said they thought that was the case because the lever could be pulled all the way back to the throttle grip. I thought that was normal
It is much better now though and doesn't touch the grip when pulled fully but I haven't tried seeing the full potential of the front. I'll go out and practice this week

As for riding smoothly, the majority of my braking is done via engine braking. However in the wet I'm not so aggressive with it as I have messed up downshifts in the past and doing that in the wet could be deadly. I brake first and get the speed+rpm down before shifting down. If that makes sense.

[discotex]

Good on ya. Just remember to be progressive with the front. Don't just slam it on. When upright you are likely to stoppie before you lock the front (in the dry). But if it does lock up you just need to let go. But don't aim for that.. Just get a feel for the tyre getting unhappy. Don't forget to build up slowly which will let the tyres get nice and warm. And check your pressures too..

[bogan]

In regards to braking, the where becomes much more important in the wet. Avoid any painted markers on the road, also avoid shiny/oily/pooled water. And things can be just as bad if not worse during light/start of rain, as oil/dust/debri etc will sit on the water.
In regard to balance, it depends on the bike and rider. Sports bikes in dry often don't bother much with the rear as the weight transfer is so strongly to the front, a lower grip during wet means less front brake force can be applied, so less weight is transfered and the rear becomes more useful, but it is still of far less use than the front. So pay much more attention to the front anyway, in a straight line stop you can lock the rear completely and not lose that much stopping power.

[russd7]

FFS, it doesnt matter what you are riding, whether it be a cruiser, tourer, trailie, or sports bike, the principle is just the same, front brake will stop you a whole lot quicker than back, and you should not be using your brake in the corner as a novice and only those pushing the limits may need to use a back brake during cornering. doesn't matter whether im on the wing or the zzr i still pretty much use only front brake unless im getting lazy and then i may use the back brake on the wing (which is linked to front right brake anyway). under emergency braking there will be very little if any grip on the back wheel anyway and the OP should be practicing his emergency braking. as has already been said, dont just yank the brake lever in even in emergency braking it needs to be progressive albeit still pretty quick but allowing the front tyre to take the weight without locking up and washing out, probably says something about all this on the dogfood pack anyway

[Urano]

So a couple of questions for wet weather, before I learn bad habits.

Should I use my rear brake when coming to a stop?

yes.

Should I use my rear brake as I slow down entering a corner?

yes.

Should I use my rear brake if I need to rub off a bit of speed mid-corner? (Hopefully I never enter it too hot to do that though!)

yes.

Are motorbikes prone to locking up the rear wheel if you mess up a downshift? (letting out clutch too suddenly, over revving etc)

"prone" no.
"could happen" yes.
especially with shitty weather...
as you've seen though, lockin up the rear wheel is rarely a huge mess.
one of this rare occasion is when you are way too leaned (and you shouldn't be way too leaned in shitty weather...), lock up the rear, panic and leave the brake: remember to smile while on the high side...

What else should I watch out for? What are some good practices such as lane positioning, when to open the throttle etc

uh... i've written a 200+ pages book about this... it's really something hard to condense in few lines...
let's try takin' a look at "a twist of wrist". maybe it's too technical for you now, but at least you get some idea...


be safe...

[Urano]

Why?

10chars

to help the fork

16. sorry.


and that's in wet as well in the dry...

[discotex]

to help the fork

16. sorry.


and that's in wet as well in the dry...

What does using the rear brake do above and beyond using the natural engine braking?

[10bikekid]

I've been riding for a month and a bit now. Done about 3000km in that time, but I've done less than 100 in the wet, where it has rained then started to dry and/or the roads are damp. Not on actual wet roads.
Today I had to go drop some videos off and it was raining, I thought what the hell might as well take the bike and go for a ride at the same time. I wasn't sure how much I could lean, where to position myself to allow for minimal lean but better cornering and what other things to watch out for.
I tiptoed around for the first 10km or so. Nervous as hell.
Finally after I started getting the hang of things and leaning a bit more etc I come up to a roundabout and as I'm braking my rear wheel locks up and I get a decent amount of sideways action. Thankfully I remained calm and eased off the back brake while holding the front so I didn't sail through the roundabout and actually came to a stop right at the line. I attribute that to lots of pushbike riding in the rain and doing little skids on them for fun. But it's just scary on a bike.
I then went to an empty road and actually practiced locking up my rear wheel and trying to control the slide while braking front and rear and seeing how much force I needed and how it felt when I was in control. But I imagine I'd be screwed if it happened in an emergency.

So a couple of questions for wet weather, before I learn bad habits.

Should I use my rear brake when coming to a stop?
Should I use my rear brake as I slow down entering a corner?
Should I use my rear brake if I need to rub off a bit of speed mid-corner? (Hopefully I never enter it too hot to do that though!)
Are motorbikes prone to locking up the rear wheel if you mess up a downshift? (letting out clutch too suddenly, over revving etc)
What else should I watch out for? What are some good practices such as lane positioning, when to open the throttle etc

Any other advice also appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Perhaps not this http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...post1130716703

Crazy Riders
I was impressed with the skills of a said motorcyclist on a mid sized Ducati Monster (or something similar) yesterday.

I was travelling up the North bound outside lane of the harbour bridge in my warm van (doing about 20kph) when I heard the roar of a smaller loud twin, it passed between me and the car in the other lane (no big deal right) and then the guy nailed it would say he was full tap running up the white line

I'm guessing he would have got to well over 100kph easy running that white line while cars where doing about 20-30ks and I was surprised he did not loose the back end (if he'd been on a thousand I'd say the result would have not been so good)

Heaven forbid was I ever that mad, it certainly looked bad from where I was

Hope he enjoy his little Russia roulette game with the wet roads and the traffic

[Urano]

What does using the rear brake do above and beyond using the natural engine braking?

well, not every bike has an effective "engine braking".
rear brake is simpler and not dependent on running condition.

as an old rule known by anybody who learned riding with two strokes engines says, "engine's for going, brakes' for stopping".

more than that, as a standard brakin' technique should be built up to help you automate your motor reaction, in emergency brakes caring about the gear lever would distract you and elongate your stop...

[discotex]

well, not every bike has an effective "engine braking".
rear brake is simpler and not dependent on running condition.

as an old rule known by anybody who learned riding with two strokes engines says, "engine's for going, brakes' for stopping".

more than that, as a standard brakin' technique should be built up to help you automate your motor reaction, in emergency brakes caring about the gear lever would distract you and elongate your stop...

OP (and most of us) is not on a 2 stroke.. If in the appropriate gear then any modern 4 stroke is providing a reasonable amount of rear drag just by coming off the throttle.

[Urano]

OP (and most of us) is not on a 2 stroke..

that's why most of today's bikers who begin with middle class have not had a good practical scholarship.

biketimus_prime demonstrated good judgment and bought a beautiful beginner bike. more than that he had the beautiful idea of asking for advice.
why would you turn him down when there's the possibility for him to build up correct procedures and learn a safer way to ride?

If in the appropriate gear then any modern 4 stroke is providing a reasonable amount of rear drag just by coming off the throttle.

"if in the appropriate gear" is a huge IF by itself.
then think that you'd slow down differently at 10.000 than 3.000 rpm, with a 1200 twin than a 600 four, with "sport" map than "rain", with a chain than with a cardan...

and in case you'll have no control at all about that "reasonable amount of drag".
with the brake you can moderate it, and receive information about grip and tarmac conditions.

if you're wandering around at 40 kmh and need to lazily slow down then you can totally push the gear lever twice and roll on to a stop, cool.

but if you're asking about a correct braking technique, more than ever in wet weather, rear brake is a fundamental part of it.

[biketimus_prime]

Well since reading up on advice and all sorts I've gone out and practiced a bit. Firstly you guys were right about the front brake, man you can get so much stopping power before locking up! It's pretty crazy I never actually pushed it as far as that before as I always stopped just fine using both brakes.

I do engine brake in the dry, so much so that I'm hardly on the brakes till I need to brush off the last bit of speed down from like 20-30kph. I do need to get more confidence in myself to engine brake in the rain as if I leave it in too high a gear and slow down, I not only have my bike braking but the engine starts stalling as I'm going forward! I actually did that a couple of times and pulled the clutch in and came to a stop that way, then geared down back to neutral.

From what Urano has said

but if you're asking about a correct braking technique, more than ever in wet weather, rear brake is a fundamental part of it.

Why should I risk lock up using my front brake fully in the wet to slow down when I would rather use my rear brake to help me brake as well and not go so hard on the front. At least if my rear slips out I slide on my ass rather than locking up the front and possibly falling head first? To reiterate, I still use my front to do 90% of the braking, but the rear could be used quite hard too...


Oh also I watched some videos of high siding and learnt the mechanics of it. I just know I'd let go of the back brake straight away if I lost grip mid corner. I JUST KNOW IT. Like I still chop the throttle when I feel uncomfortable cornering too hard sometimes. I've gotten a lot better but I still do it at times rather than rolling off and rolling on. I guess that ability to not be a bitch about it comes from doing track days.

[Urano]

Why should I risk lock up using my front brake fully in the wet to slow down when I would rather use my rear brake to help me brake as well and not go so hard on the front. At least if my rear slips out I slide on my ass rather than locking up the front and possibly falling head first? To reiterate, I still use my front to do 90% of the braking, but the rear could be used quite hard too...

cool.
i'm afraid though you're missing part of the point.
great amount of effect of the rear brake, and the amount we need most, is WITHIN the bike, not between the bike and the tarmac.
rear braking is needed to prepare the bike chassis to support front braking.
you can try it with a bit of guts: get in a wide plain and empty parking place. reach about 40-50 kmh and then, just with 2 fingers, squeeze quickly and hardly the front brake lever.
squeeze and leave it in a blink.
your front wheel will lock instantly. if you won't let it spin again immediately you'd not have the gyro rigidity you need to stay upright and will fall down...

when you hit the rear brake first the weight transfer allow the front wheel to support a harder braking on the front and eventually stop the bike. that's because the weight is part of the friction formula.
if you're very experienced you obviously can reach the same performance presiding the force which you use to squeeze the front lever, but i dare you to think about it and moderating your fingers while a child popped in the middle of the lane is coming fast toward you...
so: rear brake and THEN, after a quarter of a second, front brake. always.
this procedure will help you even in an emergency stop, but it'd be a wider topic...

uh, by the way: if you're going to try the front lock as i told you... MIND YOUR MALE PARTS...

Oh also I watched some videos of high siding and learnt the mechanics of it. I just know I'd let go of the back brake straight away if I lost grip mid corner. I JUST KNOW IT. Like I still chop the throttle when I feel uncomfortable cornering too hard sometimes. I've gotten a lot better but I still do it at times rather than rolling off and rolling on. I guess that ability to not be a bitch about it comes from doing track days.

yep.
that would be a well spent morning.
by now consider that when you open the throttle the bike will rise FROM THE BACK (and not from the front wheel as many would think...).
so when you're leaned in a turn your chassis NEED you to open the gas slowly, mildly AND CONTINUOUSLY.

reach the entry point (i'd strongly suggest you to use a late apex line on open roads. wondering what i'm talkin about? google it... ), leave the brakes, lean the bike, and then slowly and consistently open the throttle again while you're putting the bike upright again...

remember that your bike has limits much wider than you...

be safe.

[biketimus_prime]

Hey thanks for your advice again, I didn't get a chance to sit down and write out a proper reply till now

I have been riding in the wet weather the past few days and I am more confident in doing the majority of my braking using the front and I'm quite surprised how much I can use, you guys were right!
Also been more consistent with my throttle usage and trying to get my opening of the throttle correct after getting right entry speeds. Big roundabouts are perfect to practice I found. Enter too slow and lean too much and it feels like I'm going to fall off and my natural reaction is to chop the gas and stand the bike up. Enter at the right speed with the throttle constant rather than no throttle/on and off throttle and I can take a nice curve.
I did learn about late apexing for street riding and also so I can see further into the corner that way before I enter it.

By the way who do I contact directly about oil on the roads and things like that? There has been these big oil patches in the middle and right hand lane of victoria park tunnel for nearly a month now!

[chasio]

Hey thanks for your advice again, I didn't get a chance to sit down and write out a proper reply till now

I have been riding in the wet weather the past few days and I am more confident in doing the majority of my braking using the front and I'm quite surprised how much I can use, you guys were right!
Also been more consistent with my throttle usage and trying to get my opening of the throttle correct after getting right entry speeds. Big roundabouts are perfect to practice I found. Enter too slow and lean too much and it feels like I'm going to fall off and my natural reaction is to chop the gas and stand the bike up. Enter at the right speed with the throttle constant rather than no throttle/on and off throttle and I can take a nice curve.
I did learn about late apexing for street riding and also so I can see further into the corner that way before I enter it.

By the way who do I contact directly about oil on the roads and things like that? There has been these big oil patches in the middle and right hand lane of victoria park tunnel for nearly a month now!

Report anything like that (also stuff like failed streetlights) to Auckland Transport. As their website says: "If your problem is urgent call us now on 09 355 355" They answer 24 hours, 7 days a week.

I have found them quite responsive in the past, especially if you tell them it's a safety issue.