The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[CM2005]

No skunk "what it is", is the current rules........ that some should think should change what to what you want.
Are you suggesting competition parts should be allowed but only for mx85 and then suggesting mx85 should be able to run cause they are cheaper to run.........it seems a bit on the nose.........

He is suggesting that STANDARD MX80/85cc engines are used.

[husaberg]

He is suggesting that STANDARD MX80/85cc engines are used.

read the original post i quoted suggesting i am getting hung up on what the rules were rather than are?

Husaberg; I think you're getting too hung up on what was instead of what is. No; the other engines should not get competition parts as that will destroy the purpose of the MX85 and ruin the rest of the class. IMHO.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[Skunk]

No skunk "what it is", is the current rules........ that some should think should change what to what you want.
Are you suggesting competition parts should be allowed but only for mx85 and then suggesting mx85 should be able to run cause they are cheaper to run.........it seems a bit on the nose.........

But you keep quoting the 80s and seem be ignoring the recent four stoke changes.
I didn't say they would be cheaper to run.
I see them as a supply of two strokes.
As there are restrictions on the other two stokes why shouldn't there for these too?
If you let competition parts in then you've thrown the whole balance out the window.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[husaberg]

But you keep quoting the 80s and seem be ignoring the recent four stoke changes.
I didn't say they would be cheaper to run.
I see them as a supply of two strokes.
As there are restrictions on the other two stokes why shouldn't there for these too?
If you let competition parts in then you've thrown the whole balance out the window.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

what recent changes?

no but it was implied it would be cheaper for you to run one and be competitive... yes
what are the restrictions on 100cc F4 2 strokes other than cc's.
So competition parts would throw balance of power out of kilter yet competition engines won't

[CHOPPA]

How about just let people build the 85s and turn a blind eye to them, dont score them in the points. See how many, if any turn up then gauge everything from there. Make a ruling in 12 months if they stay or go

[F5 Dave]

oh what motor did the rs80 have? Rotax?
I thought Aprilia actually did a RS80 as well?

No such thing. All aftermarket. Gpr 50 is derbi early then they went to using minarelli am6 like everyone else. But this is the different discussion I was talking about

[TZ350]

With Buckets being the premier tuning and development class

Perhaps if more bucket racers looked outside the class, they might drop the above misconception. Bet few bucket racers have the slightest idea what is involved in making a competitive superbike motor.

A fat wallet?
A mechanic?
A bunch of off the shelf parts?
Somebody elses time and money?

Com on, I couldn't let that pass.

Hi Drew no offence, I guess it depends on what one means ""by premier tuning and development class"" Kel pretty much echos the Bucket fraternity's thoughts, we might be wrong so here is your chance.

For me calling Buckets the premier tuning and development class is about the front runners mostly doing all their own bike building and engine development work. I can name ten current F4/F5 front runners who built their own bikes and tweeked the engines to give 50-100% more power and learnt a lot along the way.

I would be interested in the names of ten current superbike front runners who have by their own spanner spinning efforts doubled the power of their bikes or even advanced them by 50%.

[husaberg]

How about just let people build the 85s and turn a blind eye to them, dont score them in the points. See how many, if any turn up then gauge everything from there. Make a ruling in 12 months if they stay or go

That is an intelligent solution..........

No such thing. All aftermarket. Gpr 50 is derbi early then they went to using minarelli am6 like everyone else. But this is the different discussion I was talking about

Wow, i will file that in the i didn't know that before now file.......i had always thought they did a 80 as well........

[Drew]

Hi Drew no offence, I guess it depends on what one means ""by premier tuning and development class"" Kel pretty much echos the Bucket fraternity's thoughts, we might be wrong so here is your chance.


I would be interested in the names of ten current superbike front runners who have by their own spanner spinning efforts doubled the power of their bikes or even advanced them by 50%.

Not a one of them. The rules are geared to stop exactly that. But, within the rules there is a metric shit ton of development and tuning to squeeze every once of poke from them.

Ray Clee builds most of the Suzukis, I don't know of any other rider who builds their own, but who cares? What has that got to do with anything? Should whoever rides your monster be considered lesser for not having built it.

Let's look at F3 for development, this is my perceived premier class for what we're talking about.

[richban]

Let's look at F3 for development, this is my perceived premier class for what we're talking about.

Yeah got to love F3. Such simple rules that allow way more dev than F4. Go figure.

[Grumph]

Yeah got to love F3. Such simple rules that allow way more dev than F4. Go figure.

Totally different origin Rich...F3 was designed as a National level class permitting individual development.

Buckets came about by legitemising a bunch of guys racing cheap shit at club level...

As an aside, F1 and F2 at the time F3 was started were also open slather classes - with open fuel too.....Ah, Nitro, I miss you.....

[Pumba]

Pumba's bike I don't know how worked it is but looks pretty standard. Up the hill I was getting good drive. My 50 is light & lets just say I'm probably lighter than Pumba. He'd just pull away up the hill. Pure power spread despite a weight advantage of a few 10s of kilos.

So lets not get too hung up on peak power.

Lightly warmed is probably the best way to describe my bike. But dragging my fat arse around the track it preforms like a standard one

[TZ350]

I don't know of any other rider who builds their own, but who cares? What has that got to do with anything?

Well it was you who referred to them, and what has it got to do with anything, we were talking about riders tuning and developing their own bikes. So agreed Superbikes then, is not the premier development class.

Let's look at F3 for development, this is my perceived premier class for what we're talking about.

Yes, F3 is more my idea of a development class too than Superbikes.

As an aside, F1 and F2 at the time F3 was started were also open slather classes - with open fuel too.....Ah, Nitro, I miss you.....

Drew, Grumph makes my point, the sort of development that goes on in Buckets has gone from the bigger classes, F3 is a survivor.

But I think of Buckets as the premier class because I believe per number of entries on the grid percentage wise there are greater numbers of highly developed rider tuned bikes in F4/F5 than on your average F3 grid. To see if I am right lets start naming them and see who runs out first, I will start with F5Dave, so Ok Drew now its your turn.

I guess the sheer amount of development in Buckets is because its more affordable in F4/F5 than F3 and so to my mind, affordability and the sheer numbers of really good rider developed bikes on the grid makes Buckets the Premier Tuning and Development class.

[speights_bud]

Just my 2c,

When I gave glen the mx engine we talked about how you might write the rules for them. To be added in addition to existing rules. something along these lines from memory. (bear in mind that we didn't know how competitive it would or wouldn't be)

SUPER-UNMODIFIED,
Off road MX based engines, 85cc maximum.
All engine internals to remain as standard.
Carburettor must be as standard.
Exhaust open. (To aid fitting into a frame).

I would now probably add electronic equipment as standard also.

This keeps the gearbox stuff at bay, providing a 2T option for those who are enthusiastic.

Since the bike has now been tested, those who have ridden it will know if the above rules are suitable.

I think the bike should be ridden by a few different people from both camps in its current configuration and see what people think. If it's not the powerhouse the dyno charts brag about then open the rules up a touch.

[underpowered80]

Totally different origin Rich...F3 was designed as a National level class permitting individual development.

Buckets came about by legitemising a bunch of guys racing cheap shit at club level...

As an aside, F1 and F2 at the time F3 was started were also open slather classes - with open fuel too.....Ah, Nitro, I miss you.....

Hi GRUMPH. When my sons started racing,the bikes were cb100, cb125, cb125t,gp100,kc,ke100,yb100.This was 18yrs ago .Now we have ,cbr150 ,fxr150,
All liquied cooled ,4valve motors.Is it not time to allow a new two stroke motor.A kx,yz,cr,rm,85 water cooled. If their is concern about these motors being fitted with aftermarket hot up parts ,Be like speedway and pre season dyno them.
WHAT YOU THINK ROBIN